It’s doesn’t feel good when you farm for better gear every day on higher difficulty content, farm gold to buy mats, epic drops and met new people to have access to more content, just for one guy to do far easier content, get some lucky drops and now you’re outgeared and out of a raid rooster. That’s one of the reasons I quit BFA early on.
If I can get top gear on solo play/easy doable content, then what’s the point of more than half the systems on this game ?. What’s the point of still call it an MMO?.
What exactly do you want? You say there’s no incentive to play, but why would MASSIVELY overgearing the content you’re already doing keep you playing any more?
Just doing a 7 gives you 460 in the chest. The end of dungeon 450 + cloak and neck should get you to +10 range in a couple weeks weeks at the most if you’re doing it an hour a night.
If it’s not enjoyable don’t do it. Try visions or pvp, or raid.
If you want high end gear do high end. If you don’t have time for it why are you playing MMO’s? It comes down to the player to pick a game that fits what they enjoy and their playstyle. Why should others who devote every bit of their time into a MMO be devalued because you feel like you are entitled to the same gear they have. Before I had the ability to play like I do now I would always see people with better gear and say things “Damn man that gear is awesome, maybe someday I can get gear like that” I didn’t expect to be given free sh*t just because I pay for a sub. Be happy with the game and with what you can do with it and don’t complain about fairness when you are choosing to play a Unfair game. Just like RL someone is always going to be better then you and have more. That’s the nature and joy of MMO. Push yourself and stop asking for hand outs.
Swallow your own medicine then. I pay for your content, you don’t pay for mine. If you want to see the whole game, pay more for it and stop relying on these people you scoff at to pay for you living in a videogame.
If casual players left this game, you would have a niche title. We hate hardcore players just as much as you hate us for the same reason. Both of us think the other is benefiting off the other.
This is an excellent point, which hits on the arguments from both side of this discussion.
The community is split into (generically):
Dedicated guilds, fixed rosters.
Semi-Dedicated guilds, who will pug reluctantly.
Leveling guilds, which may or may not be any different than solo.
Unaffiliated groups of friends who can progress M+ together with limited pug.
Solo players who will participate in group content as they can get it.
If you aren’t part of a dedicated (full or semi), then YMMV all over the place.
There isn’t a community fabric going any longer.
Also. WoW isn’t a job. IO isn’t your resume/CV.
Bought carries are counted just as legitimately as any other.
Whatever happened to community outreach?..on a much larger scale that is…?
Your arrogance is dripping. I am well aware of all these paths, all of which require more time than I have. Since there are so many paths what is the harm in adding one more path ala benthic gear where I can also negate the terrible frustration of RNG giving me the same stupid piece again and again and again? Are you really so threatened by someone achieving slightly better gear that is still below your level this late in the expansion? And for what its worth que a 450 ilevel toon for a heroic raid and see how many invites you get. I have friends, many have left this game for various reasons, some still play and a few are raiders, to each his own. I enjoy the game and continue to play, I am simply offering a suggestion to keep people like me invested at least a little while longer. Why does that threaten your game play?
Then we go back to saying that the game is financially supported by the masses of more casual players and that, to keep the game going, you have to give them something other than people constantly insulting their (lack of) skill and telling them to crawl off and die.
I’m not advocating handing out max ilvl gear at all.
What I, and others, are saying is that the relative ilvl of gear that the majority of current content (endgame) is designed around being a challenge for should be attainable in a variety of ways, both shorter and longer.
The fact that Blizzard tends to design everything around having the best of the best of the best with every buff, pot, etc. rather than something slightly less…
Leave M+15 and Mythic raids as the “challenge” levels that they are, and the gear that drops from them as rewards that actually exceed hitting the threshold of having overcome the current expansion/patch.
Gear/ilvl scaling (which is not trying to derail this) plays another factor…the point at which (threshold again) where your character power overcomes the scaling is set too close to that level of gear.
If the power gulf between heroics/WQ/crafting and M+/Mythic raiding wasn’t so large either…
I literally got to 2.2k io pugging, playing a bottom 5 spec. While maintaining a job… working 40-50 hours a week. I don’t understand what frustration you are talking about honestly.
It’s so easy to gear it’s almost a joke at this point. My mains 477 and I have 3 alts at 460+ and those I did almost nothing on. Just did warfront’s and weekly’s as they came up, occasionally did a key on them for the extra cache, but not even weekly. None of this took more than a couple hours a week.
If you can just gear above a heroic raid ilvl by doing basically nothing already. What is the point of anyone doing content anymore if we extend it even further. The whole reason you Raid, M+, or do Arena’s is to get to the next best thing.
You want to strip the entire design of the game so you can do pet battles in Mythic gear. Not ever going to agree with you on that period.
You only needed like 450+ when Heroic was out. What ilvl do you want to be at that you think is fair? Let’s figure this out.
So 450 is Heroic requirement, my main that I pushed a TON of high end keys is 477.
You can already get above 460 just doing random weekly’s and low keys for weekly caches, emissary’s, warfront, crafting etc.
So what level do you think is fair? because the gap keeps getting smaller and smaller here.
Should Mythic raiders only have like a 5 ilvl advantage over someone doing LFR and pet battles?
I mean you yourself said “470+” Like dude that’s literally mythic raid gear… how easy do you want them to make the game before its a single player rpg…
The problem is, there is no way to make that stuff attainable in a comparative way without an inordinate amount of effort.
Also, because of this mindset, Blizz has spent the last 6 or 7 xpacs pandering harder and harder to the “I deserve it” crowd, to the detriment of the game.
Finally, the only stuff that requires the “best” gear is the stuff you don’t want to do.
When making the assertion that pugging is #1 easy, #2 fast, you have to step back and realize that not everyone is running around on a server like Illidan or Stormrage.
The cross realm GF is a cesspool of cherry picking groups who do discriminate based on artificial 3rd party tools and are fishing because their time is more valuable than anyone else.
Until all the recent realm connections, most realms were pretty lean on arranging groups via trade/LFG.
If you logged in and made regular, pug, progression in the short amount of times claimed by posters…you had better luck with RNG all around, got carried (and can’t or won’t admit that it was part of how it happened).
Getting to ~430, sure. Getting to 450+? Yeah, right.
My highest toon is 460 and I got the same way you did. I’m leveling alts now and it would be nice to use wasted emissary gear to add 5 points to a piece of gear. It worked fine in Naz and no one lost their minds about someone getting something for nothing. I in no way am advocating for max gear, just so sick of getting the 10th shoulder slot or Tortellini ring that I already have. I’m just suggesting those items be used to add a slight improvement to what I have. Guess that’s a bridge too far for yall folks. Cheers, you win. I quit. I’ll wait till SL drops and meander my way happily thru at my pace.
Seems we all got fairly decent gear whether we did the mythics or not. I personally didn’t do it as I don’t have that kind of time but don’t really care who does or doesn’t and I certainly never felt weak.
If I can pug to 2.2k on a dead spec. There is no excuse that you simply cannot do keys. Someone will always invite you, maybe not every group but the way you say it is like it’s impossible.
It simply isn’t. I did it clearly. I don’t have any friends I’m running with, and am in a dead guild.
And regardless those things still exist. If you are having a problem downing keys or something. Join community’s or a guild. They are there for a reason.
Not true at all. I want to heroic raid. I even heal, so not part of the endless DPS ocean.
Still hit a wall on ilvl where I can’t get into or through the “intermediate” step between WQ/M+3-ish (430 ish) and 450+ where people were reluctantly willing to consider thinking about the possibility of considering letting me come with maybe.
I’ve seen guilds stop raiding regularly rather than pull in new people they had to (eye roll) do farm content again before getting back to “real” content.
And heaven help you if you aren’t one of the simm-ed FOTM.
Or don’t have the “right” traits…or stats on gear…or gems…etc.
Golly…that extra 123 haste is going to be the only thing stopping the group from winning you know.
Bro all I do on my alts is this. I geared my friends that just came back to 450 in like a day.
Simply do M0, start with the dungeons that have mounts. Make a group for them. Try to stack armor type. If you are warrior invite plate etc. Do the key and just politely ask for loot, after all the people who joined are there for a mount.
Once you do those you should have enough gear to just start doing them. Do the other 6 or whatever. By then you are basically full 430.
If you need a weapon go do call to arms, takes you maybe an hour. Get the small amount of conquest left you need and you get a 440.
Do your warfront, log at least 1 key that week. Get your legendary cloak.
By then you should already be 445-450.
Now you start doing whatever content you prefer and gearing further.
If you cant be bothered to do like 10-11 dungeons, and a handful of weekly easy stuff. You cant complain if you don’t get gear. You don’t have to do them all in one sitting they have weekly lockouts anyways.
Edit: Ohh and this works even better if you do it on dungeons weeks. The last boss always drops 2 pieces of loot.
If you can get gear that is on par to raiding or mythic + then what’s the point of keep doing it?. It removes difficulty, the few social aspects this game still has and since end game content is more widely available and doable, it will shorten the life span of the game forcing blizzard to regurgitate more content (wich might decrease in quality) to keep the player base alive, not only that it will still be the same “you need x ilvl to come” unless they make the content for solo players wich pretty much defeats the purpose of factions, MMOs and World of Warcraft itself.
Now to answer the question of how it will affect our gameplay. If there’s a system other than raids that awards the same gear and it requires less people and is less difficult, it will kill the raiding scene since people will struggle to fill a rooster, there’s people who like difficulty on their games or they will get bored.
It is fair for non raiders?. No it isn’t, but you have 16+ years of wow content to know that raids as end game content have been here and should stay as that.