Let’s not talk about hypothetical situations. It happened.
You’re implying Vol’jin would have ruled through fear if he hadn’t died? You obviously don’t know that character too well.
There is no evidence that he feared Garrosh, so this is irrelevant.
So you agree that they aren’t always kept in line through fear?
He was still a Horde leader.
Like I said, it’s a bad thing that people hold disdain for their leader. But this is a false equivalent. The reason people don’t like Sylvanas might have something to do with the fact that she burned millions of people to a crisp for no other reason besides “I want to kill hope”.
So obviously it makes more sense in this context for the people to want to overthrow her.
OP, if you both to look at the real world you will see PLENTY of people who absolutely detest their leaders and what they are doing to their respective countries. But that doesn’t mean they will go to civil war(at least most of them). It isnt a sign of weakness, but rather it is a sign of intelligence. As far as I’m cocerned you need to wait until the right time/have the right opportunity before you actually strike/do anything.
It’s not hypothetical to say the Vol’jin stood by and did nothing for a long time before an attempt was made on his life.
He also never did anything to evoke Garrosh’s wrath. If he did, I would expect him to cower and apologize to his Warcheif profusely for the insult… Which we have seen orc commanders do before.
… No, I am saying they have so many problems BECAUSE Horde leaders rule through fear.
He was, and arguably the best one. Funny the best Horde leader is the one who was raised by humans.
Lor’themar in particular I think understands the situation for what it is. He’s going to have exactly one oppertunity to move against Sylvanas directly, and then he’ll never get another one.
Given his more pragmatic nature, he’s not going to spend his one oppertunity on a moral stand or when Sylvanas controls the situation, he’s going to use it to win.
Being fiercely loyal to your warchief does not mean that you fear their wrath. It’s not the same thing.
Idk if I said this already but I don’t consider Baine to be spineless. While he might have taken a long time to act, and even made a question choice in that his first action was to help the Alliance, he isn’t a coward.
Similarly, Vol’jin is not a coward. And if he were as spineless as you claim the rest of the Horde to be, he still wouldn’t have acted against Garrosh.
It kind of does… Nazgrim proved he would rather die than face Garrosh.
Well, that’s your opinion then. I disagree, but we at least now know that we disagree on the premise of the argument. I would consider Baine and Vol’jinn to be spineless people. I am not sure if I would say they are cowardly, spineless at least.
Which there is a difference. Cowardice is the antithesis of Bravery, and Bravery requires fear to overcome. One who is not afraid is also not brave. Thus someone who is afraid is not necessarily a coward.
But I think Vol’jin and Baine were very afraid of Garrosh, and as it stands, the Horde leaders are spineless in their complacency with Sylvanas’s rule.
Unless of course they are simply being more covert about their treason. Which I fully expect from Lor’themar. But we will see.
“Somebody commenting on the Lost Honor cinematic said, “You know. It feels a little unfair that you’ve got these two very powerful men that are gonna go after Sylvanas.” My response was, "Oh, clearly you don’t understand Sylvanas, because I would not use the word 'unfair”
Hahaha, maybe more unfair to Saurfang and Anduin, considering they’ll probably just be the NPCs standing around and can’t actually touch her while the player raid does the actual work.
The Horde’s leaders have been spineless since Teldrassil. Not only did Sylvanas start a secretive global war without the consent or advice of any leader (cept Saurfang,) she burnt their only win condition in a grossly inhumane and wasteful tactic that transgresses the values of virtually the entire faction, thus risking the lives of every Horde race in a war they were uncertain to win.
Teldrassil should have been the moment the Horde leadership collectively agreed Sylvanas was nuts and must step down as Warchief.
"Sylvanas’ destiny is to be found out and discussed by the player base, but it would be dismissive to think she’ll just go down as another raid boss, because she’s a little bit more than that.
“Does that mean you will not fight her?” he added. “Not necessarily true either. The reality is you can fight her every day of the week in Grommash Hold, in a raid, right now. But I do think there’s a lot more to Sylvanas’ story that hasn’t been told yet.”
Honestly… it annoys me to no end that Blizzard says this about Sylvanas, when we have characters like Archimond, KJ, Xavius, Gorak Tul, and potentially Azshara, made into loot piñatas.
If they just off Azshara in a raid, I am going to be super angry, because she is worth 100 Sylvanas’s.
“She is more than just another raid boss.”
Looks back at OLD GODS made into throw-away raid bosses