7 out of the 11 leaders of the Horde clearly show some sort of disdain for Sylvanas after Baine’s arrest. Yet none of them said anything.
When did the leaders of the Horde become so spineless?
Edit: I don’t mean that to demean players of the Horde, if it comes off that way.
Spineless, or intelligent?
When’s the right time to express dissent against Sylvanas or act against her? Is it…
A) In the middle of a Fortress under Sylvanas’ command, filled with soldiers loyal to her above all others, located in enemy territory, meaning these leaders have no backup and no escape?
Or is it…
B) In their seats of power where the full might of their armies and resources of their nation are at their disposal, and they have a chance of secretly seeking allies within the Horde to stand up to Sylvanas without her knowing?
So you’d have them all join the alliance?
Regardless of your position on the matter, Baine did commit treason. He actively helped the alliance, and weakened the horde. If my friend did something stupid and illegal IRL, but it was like a “lawful good” thing, and got arrested, I’d still SMH, but law’s the law.
Weird analogy, sure. But they are shocked that Baine got arrested, not really for what he actually did.
What would you have preferred the other horde leaders to do? Descend on Sylvanas and try and kill her?
You aren’t demeaning horde players, you just aren’t looking at this from a neutral perspective.
I don’t think anyone in the Warcraft world is intelligent. If you look at their dialogue, very few of them express the “now isn’t the right time” mindset. Except Garona and maybe Rokhan.
So given they aren’t even in that mindset, yes, they are spineless.
Showing disdain is one thing, raising up arms against your Warchief is another. Showing disdain doesn’t automatically mean that they even want forcefully challenge Sylvanas. As you said one maybe two leaders wants to actually forcibly challenge Sylvanas but are being smart about it.
Yeah, but to make this story linear and sensical, everyone has to be a bit silly. This isn’t a book, where every character’s motivations are set out clearly and everyone is given a lot of individual character development in a short span of time.
If this game was “ran sensibly”, the game wouldn’t have progressed past vanilla. The alliance would have just crushed the horde. In BFA, the alliance should have wont after they slew Rastakhan, but instead Jaina gave her “xd don’t wanna be like the banshee queen!!!” speech and did not raze Dazar’alor.
Also, generally, why is holding disdain/disagreeing with your leader bad?
Not even Baine “said anything” after the Burning of Teldrassil and the mass use of Blight on two continents, so it is unlikely that the other leaders would say anything now. Although again, it is confusing why he is so upset at the torture of a single dead human but not at anything else Sylvanas has done prior.
If the game was run sensibly, there never would have been a need to, ‘Crush the Horde.’ Thrall would’ve led the Horde as honorable savages and the Alliance, with Jaina, would’ve forged a strong and last peace between the two groups. The two would probably even cooperate when global threats cropped up, but otherwise minded their own business.
Not necessarily, characters can make sensible choices. Khadgar staying out of the war entirely is a good example.
Im discussing the game as it’s presented. Saying all this can lead to a never-ending back and forth about how well the game COULD have been written. For example, if the game was written well, the Horde wouldn’t get wiped out. They would be equal in strength to the Alliance.
If the majority of your people hold disdain for a leader, it’s probably because there is something wrong with the leader. That is bad.
Real world example: Sylvannas = Trump, Horde = Republicans…Baine = McCain? Sadly I don’t have a real world example for Varok. The Horde leadership cannot revolt either for fear of their own lives or the protection of their people. Varok, Thrall and even Vol’Jin will likely change that at the end of the expansion or sadly in a book between expansions. 
You act like blizzard cares about horde leaders making sense.
They don’t, they dont care about anything not related to their pets. Anduin, Jaina, Baine, they get the moments because the writers like them, if the writers dont like a character they ignore it.
Baine was accused of a crime, and there will be a trial. Is due process “spineless”?
Does the Sixth Amendment apply in wow, does baine need to represent himself, will he be given a lawyer.
Is it going to be with a jury of his peers, what about the judge, can i be the judge?
Just wait until you read Tides of War, and you read how Garrosh basically had everyone quivering in fear, with tails between their legs.
Since always? They did nothing when Garrosh turned the Kor’kron into a secret police to punish certain speech and opinions. They do nothing still now.
The Horde has always structured it’s leadership with fear. Ogrim seized power by force and threat of punishment. Blackhand ruled with an iron fist before him. The Horde has always been kept in line by means of fear. They operate much like a wolf pack that way. The Alpha eats first, and the others of the pack cower with their tail in-between their legs when they catch the Alpha’s ire.
Sylvanas is the Alpha.
In trying to find the quote for Deathisfinal when Deathisfinal said Blizzard said Saurfang and Anduin together would be a fair fight, I stumbled upon this interview that I had missed:
Since Afrasiabi brought up the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas option, Mitch pressed him about the idea of splitting the Horde into separate factions for each camp. While the idea would be “thematically cool and appropriate for this scenario,” Afrasiabi explained that creating a third faction would really mean splitting up friendships and guilds since factions cannot adventure together. His preference would be the other way: that the Alliance and Horde could group together “one of these days.”
“That is the bigger meta lesson of Azeroth,” he concluded, “that these battles that we fought, even when we are separated, are for the same damn purpose. For our home.”
Cairne who literally challenged Garrosh to a Mak’gora? Vol’jin who led the rebellion?
This is just wrong. Thrall did not rule through fear, and neither did Vol’jin. Even when Garrosh was leading, Nazgrim, who stood by his side, wasn’t afraid of what would happen if he didn’t follow. He followed Garrosh because he swore an oath to the Warchief, no matter who it was.
On top of that, every time a leader has tried to rule through fear(Sylvanas and Garrosh), problems arise. In short, they were not always spineless, but for some reason they are now. With the exception of Baine, but I still think he should have acted sooner.
Not to split hairs, but the Forsaken value free will above all other things, and Sylvanas raising someone and attempting to destroy that free will would be like a president doing something very clearly and openly against a constitutional right. Is it more treasonous to go against your leader or to go against the fundamental laws that keep their society in check?
Cairne was pretty cool, but also an old, experienced warrior chieftain. Cairne is a special case because he is literally the shining example of “What orcs should be” in Thrall’s eyes.
That is not what orcs are though.
Man, it took Vol’jin a LONG time to work up the courage to do that. Honestly, by the time he did it, he had no other choice. His hand was forced, and he might have never done anything otherwise.
Thrall was also raised by humans… Thrall is not like most orcs.
I mean, Vol’jin wasn’t Warcheif long enough to really do anything.
A loyal dog can still fear his master.
And that’s why the Horde has so many problems and always has. It’s not a good system of governing.
Real World Example:
Trump wins despite the majority of citizens voting against him by the millions. The constitution was written to empower the states over the national citizenry. Trump won without majority support, just like Bush Jr.
They both had the Democrats as opposition. Namely, Pelosi. Many liberal leaders view the Republican policies as destructive and terrible. Is Pelosi supposed to leap on top of Trump during the next State of the Union?
I just dont see what posters like the OP expect or want. Internal disagreements dont require knee jerk reactions based on impulse. Especially during a war.