Epic premades are toxic and totally violate the social contract and terms of service

i do want to point out that this is a result of dropping from a split, not syncing entirely, its possible to sync queue and take what you get, but this hasn’t been a way of doing things for a while, and the main reason is a mix of drama but also enjoyable experience.

on the drama angle, its not uncommon for a few community members to split and end up with a group of pugs against a premade and lose. while this isn’t an issue, what happens is that the full premade will claim this as a victory over the entire other community. this results in a lot of communities only taking full pops with all their groups and dropping for splits.

additionally its also not a fun time to get split into a losing game while everyone else in your community got into a different game together while they are dominating. you sit in disc hearing everyone else talking about how great a game they are having while you are on your 7th rez. this has resulted in many resorting to dropping when they get a split pop.

the main problem from syncing is the unfilled rosters created by them dropping, and them dropping is caused by them splitting, then solving the splits would solve the drops. allowing premades to queue as a raid would solve this.

now you are just moving pieces around the table and forgetting they are people with their own desires, most people don’t want to backfill.

no, its really caused by a stale map meta and bad pvp meta design. people know the key moments that give momentum, but hardly anyone knows how to recover and counter.

if i was with a premade vs a premade and we lost the initial teamfight, we would recover and go try a different plan, you can’t do that with pugs. and because you can’t do that with pugs, people don’t want to play with pugs, and because they don’t want to play with pugs, they premade.

really all it takes to drive a good player to premade is losing one too many games they could have won had the pugs just listened and not given up early.

this amount of copium cannot be safe

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Raids can’t be mixed with the PUG queue, that would just completly kill what remains.

Raids would need their own queue and you would need a full premade or all games allowed to start with 25-40 players.

There is no way Blizz would let full premades play against randoms.

The raid queue would take too long and communities would go back to syncing 5man.

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Yeah, let’s make it easier for premade communities to bring their 30+ man raids into epic bgs. This definitely won’t drive away the last remaining pugs.

By the way, this wouldn’t solve premade raids dropping queue pops, because they’d still do that for whatever reason. Send in a scout. Don’t like the other team? Drop queue. So, it’s not a solution.

All this would do is legitimize premade raids in random bgs.

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it would be no different than premades before, but without all the dropping from split pops. if there are two premades in queue, the system should try to match them against each other, but at the end of the day the system should fill the roster from the general pool.

if you want PVP and epics to be fun again, then blizz needs to change the PVP meta away from the high burst high CC meta we currently have. in fact i would say this is much more of an issue than premades. communities have been syncing since 8.0 and nobody cared until DF. i think premades exacerbate the burst meta as a larger scale version of taking a coordinated arena team vs 3 random dudes.

it already happens, and there is increasingly more participation in community based premades. and again like i said, if they allow premades to queue as a raid, a huge chunk of easy to solve epic bg problems go away instantly.

I would be willing to bet a token that if blizzard were to implement my gearing overhauls which reduce the barrier to entry and eliminate ilvl gaps, that pugs wouldn’t feel so outclassed, and if they implemented my afk overhauls, people wouldn’t be so quick to winshop.

so if there were no more games started 5v40, and no more ilvl or gear gaps, and no more people easily afking at the first sign of not getting a win. would it really matter if one side is a premade?

Yes, because it is still a massive advantage no matter how much you try to downplay it.

7 Likes

They need to revamp Epic BGs to have more win conditions, buffs and better mechanics. Fix all the existing imbalance issues.

Entice players to queue for Epics and make groups for it, create persistant 500v500 battles (Battle for Kalimdor…) with zones locked to 40 players. (like Foxhole game)

Make a warfronts based PVP.

With more win conditon a smaller team of 3 players could force a game change, Its good for small team to have huge game impact.

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Honor level is measurement of skill now?

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Even earlier than 8.0 tbh

I suspect this whole issue is just more “visible” now since the content droughts in recent years especially have pushed more random/pug players to dabble in other stuff to kill time in between content servings - such as queuing casual BGs. And communities pop up alongside this

So more normies come into epic BGs and they start noticing the same names/same communities over and over in multiple epic BG matches… which leads to more complain threads about premades popping up on the forums… and so on

So back when the game was in a healthier state with plenty of content - such as in Legion - there might’ve only been 1 or 2 active premades… and they wouldn’t even queue every night. Vast majority of games were still pugs-vs-pugs even well into BFA. World PvP was also active and provided a separate outlet for these groups such as RUIN

Shadowlands hits and it seems communities suddenly popped up left and right, and it makes sense since the entire expansion was one giant content drought :desert: wPvP also dried up almost completely, meaning that the “only” remaining outlet for premade groups to get a large-scale PvP fix was inside a casual epic BG

Anyways, it’s hard not to notice the pattern

I didn’t play much WoD/missed most of it, but you can still find older complain threads about premades and “premades in ashran” from back then. And just like Shadowlands, WoD was also basically a giant content drought from start to finish

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Lol not sure about this, WoW’s interests aren’t that high in general and PvP is even smaller. But I LOVE your suggestion about bring back WPVP and would definitely sub again if Blizz does this.

I would love this, but how about maybe 10 times bigger? 1000 is not quite ‘war’ size yet :stuck_out_tongue: 'Anyway, the problem is that total PvP player only made up to around 1% of the total WoW population, and bg/epic population is smaller again. When the remaining players push new players away, and are busy making the environment harder for each other, this population will only shrink, all these doesn’t create good incentive for Blizz to pour more resource in.

Fixing their game design to help channel in more players who play to enjoy the game (and not to do a chore - eg quest/transmog/point etc) might create a healthier environment.

Btw, there is a good post about why people don’t pvp, it is worth taking a look.

2 Likes

dear its q syncing no matter how to try to deflect the issue or explain it to us . you all q sync plain and simple .

what are you yapping about what “drama” ? LOL

LOL oh i get it now /s yeah right LMAO

oh no what ever will qsyncers do their poor win rate will go down . Blizzard needs to make the ques split premades way more often .

how about no and no , how about they make you guys split up more and remove merc mode entirley and make it cross faction so super split yall up . enough is enough .

not as much as you are moving things around trying to win a argument with all these “words” and “phrases” bottom line is you guys q sync and its destroying bgs period .

ah yes blame the game not the people doing all the q syncing and being sweaty tryhard group vs pugs in a very casual unranked pvp setting.

that is what makes it unranked tho the pugs its for casual play , you guys want tryhard sweatfest maybe do more wargames with toys disabled then . People dont mind playing pugs , thats why they are pugs , if you want completive gameplay go q for rated 10s . You guys all q for epics but as many groups as u guys run we could have had a healthy rbg environment. But lets face it yall just want to gy farm pugs 24/7 and then boast about it .

ive won against premades as pugs some of us dont give up so easily .

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yes , i want all the npcs to have ubber hp stacked , make it take longer for av and stuff . I WANT EPIC battles again not race to the pve boss fast pvp .

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for once i agree with you

Listen I didn’t read anything else because I’m just a dumb warrior, but how dare you say I don’t push.

ALL I DO IS PUSH I HAVE W TATTED ON MY FINGER BECAUSE I DONT STOP ZUGGING

SEE ME ON THE FIELD YOU WIMPY SPELL BOOK READING NERD

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Dude writes me a Stephen King novel on what a great person he is - while ‘‘leading’’ a group of clickers who abuse/manipulate the queue system in order to win something.

Spare me, bro.

I’m not buying you being a good person… on or offline.

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Not in all cases - but some.

Example (This is strictly 1v1) - I’m 1861 Honor Level. I’ll always target somebody that’s lower Honor Level… Let’s say a level 125 is walking by me - easy win. I know they’re bad.

If I see somebody around 1700 - I’ll have to use my cooldowns.

But I’ll still win - because I’m me, and they aren’t.

There’s different skill levels. There’s Arena skill - which I avoid, because I’m not a good team player. I’m only in it for me. I only care about myself. So, I look for 1v1/1v2s. I don’t have to share the glory.

But 9 times out of 10 - I can tell by a persons Honor Level… the type of fight its going to be. I can also tell which BG team will win… You don’t want the Honor Level 105 healer.

Trust me.

Explain Charming…honor level is not a reliable indicator of skill. Just that they’ve done a lot of bgs.

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:person_shrugging: I wasn’t selling anything online or offline, and I’m certainly not the one that goes on rants. At least try to be intellectually honest.

Again, congratulations on level 1856. Nobody else congratulated you and showered you with admiration and ardor, so I did. Validation IS what you were seeking. I’m simply stating that I’m not looking for that same validation.

Here’s a badly written limerick dedicated to you, dear Owlcapwn:

A grump named Owlcapwn, so crass,
Flung insults with a venomous … sass … ahem
He’d belittle and sneer,
But with each biting jeer,
A desperate plea for approval, alas!

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I said in some cases…

I did a BG yesterday on Horde. The top 10 Honor Levels were Horde players. I knew it was going to be a win, and it was.

So, you really think Beary, who is Honor Level what? 600? Is going to beat me 1v1?

L O L.

Riiight.

Some of the top ranking honor level players in the US are some of the worst pvpers I’ve ever met.

Honor level means you can spam epics and has nothing to do with skill level. Not at all.

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