Hi all,
I have done extensive research on the Endless Halls. There is a mapping method that works, and a way to solve this puzzle 100% deterministically with NO randomness. This method is taken from the @Frogge pinned post in the secrets discord.
Here is my map:
http://i.imgur.com/ae8iWrt.png
You start at grey, and the teal lines are roomexits that randomly port you through the maze. Each room is one of the bigger pink squares, or a 3x3 of the littler squares.
First and foremost, keep in mind these basic facts:
1) There can be dead ends
2) There are loops
3) There are "multiple floors" - but you cannot tell when you go up/down a floor. The stairs in the entryways are a red herring in that regard. This manifests as 2D overlaps of rooms.
4) There can be entryways that randomly port you to any part of the maze
5) Relogging brings you back to your starting square.
6) You CAN detect if you were randomly ported.
7) The map is unique to each player and unique to each day.
8) There are NO duplicate orbs or runes. One of each color, for a total of 10 unique markers.
To detect if you've been ported, from least effort to most effort:
1) You enter a room from a rubble side
2) Your prior room was one of the 10 markers... if you go back and don't see the same marker? You were randomly ported.
3) Going back 2-3 steps and noticing unfamiliar layout. (I've had a random port take me to a spot where the prior room was identical but the discrepancy was one more room back)
Now, onto the guide... I copied the grid you see in my map in MS paint and used the fill tool to make each dotted line, the grid is laid out in such a way that this is easy. I marked overlaps with solid lines. I used the addon "Lucid Nightmare Helper" to help me remember my last 3-5 moves and where I entered the current room as I mapped.
1) At the start, mark the room you're in according to the same way I did on my map.
2) Travel an entryway
3) For each undiscovered part of the map you draw, verify if you were randomly ported or not before drawing that room.
3.1) If you weren't randomly ported, draw that room connected to the prior room.
3.2) If you were randomly ported, relog and port back to the start rather than trying to bumble around an unknown part of the map.
4) If you find a marker, mark it on your map. If you find a port wall, mark it on your map and never go there again.
5) Repeat 1-4 as needed until you have all 10 markers mapped. Then complete the dungeon.
Happy mapping! Ping me on discord @WuSage3#7518 if you want help.
1 Like
This pretty much sounds just like how I thought the maze worked, my guild-mates largely refused to believe I was right though and thought that mapping was a waste of time instead choosing to believe the maze was randomized constantly.
It's definitely a procedurally generated fixed layout, the random porting is what throws everyone who attempted to map it off.
I'm tempted to do it again on the other character I leveled through up to the
Maze following this map.
09/06/2017 01:39 PMPosted by
Sherree
I'm tempted to do it again on the other character I leveled through up to the
Maze following this map.
It's unique to each character, it won't be the same map as mine. However, it's also unique to each *day,* too. So do it on your main again, you'll get a different map if it's a different day.
This pretty much sounds just like how I thought the maze worked, my guild-mates largely refused to believe I was right though and thought that mapping was a waste of time instead choosing to believe the maze was randomized constantly.
It's definitely a procedurally generated fixed layout, the random porting is what throws everyone who attempted to map it off.
To those who aren't quite as observant, I think the concept of overlapping rooms (you can think of them as floors, but there is no way to tell you've gone up or down a floor) is also problematic to envision.
I disagree with the idea that there cannot be any duplicate orb/rune rooms. One of the maps I did had two blue orb rooms with exits in different directions in different locations on my map. (However, this seems to be rare.)
Everything else matches my experience.
It's definitely a procedurally generated fixed layout, the random porting is what throws everyone who attempted to map it off.
It's not truly random, though.
I was always able to retrace my steps following my map even through places I was pretty sure I was getting teleported. If they were truly random, that wouldn't have been possible. That means the teleports have to be in fixed locations (for that individual character's map, of course) and go both ways.
I also considered the possibility that some doorways were one-way (blocked in one room, open in the other) but the room on the other side didn't always match the room I had previously mapped that I expected to be there. Could be some still were but it's probably easier just to treat it as being teleported and starting a new map segment to one side.
09/06/2017 02:37 PMPosted by
Flan
I disagree with the idea that there cannot be any duplicate orb/rune rooms. One of the maps I did had two blue orb rooms with exits in different directions in different locations on my map. (However, this seems to be rare.)
Everything else matches my experience.
Only time I ran into what appeared to be a duplicate rune room, I was able to follow my original path out of it to another room with a different rune I had already mapped. I'm positive it was the same room and that it was teleporting that brought me to it the second time I "found" it. It's the rune I ended up clearing last using the teleport route to get to it once I had picked up the orb.
I know some people said if you were in there long enough, runes could start respawning. Could that be what you experienced?
09/06/2017 02:37 PMPosted by
Flan
I disagree with the idea that there cannot be any duplicate orb/rune rooms. One of the maps I did had two blue orb rooms with exits in different directions in different locations on my map. (However, this seems to be rare.)
Everything else matches my experience.
Categorically false. Sorry, you're misremembering your orb room then, or got turned around (it's easy to get turned around w.r.t. your map with a random port), happened to me too - I backtracked to what I thought was the "different" orb room of the same color according to my map, and realized I wrote the walls down wrong on my first map of that room - I got turned around and switched two of the walls originally.
Or you entered the next day and had a different map.
There are NO duplicates. This has been confirmed by several people mapping their instance (and several of their instances over the past few days) on the secrets discord according to our mapping method. This isn't statistically irrefutable proof, sure, but it's enough to say confidently there are NO duplicates. The entire objective of the instance makes no sense with duplicates, either.
You CAN completely prove me wrong, though, if you turn in that orb and walk back to your supposed "duplicate" and still see it there. Do that and I'll concede, but otherwise it should be considered categorically false.
It's definitely a procedurally generated fixed layout, the random porting is what throws everyone who attempted to map it off.
It's not truly random, though.
I was always able to retrace my steps following my map even through places I was pretty sure I was getting teleported. If they were truly random, that wouldn't have been possible. That means the teleports have to be in fixed locations (for that individual character's map, of course) and go both ways.
I also considered the possibility that some doorways were one-way (blocked in one room, open in the other) but the room on the other side didn't always match the room I had previously mapped that I expected to be there. Could be some still were but it's probably easier just to treat it as being teleported and starting a new map segment to one side.
It may be a fixed number of locations, but I guaranteed at at a minimum, my map's teal doorways took me to different spots. I went through one of the teal doorways (both actually) 5-6 times to verify. Going through one of the doorways, I ended up in the Red Orb room. Going through it again, I appeared in the Yellow Rune room. A third time, an unmarked room from the rubble side. Same for the other teal entryway. That's enough to consider it 'random' and avoid it entirely.
Also note that there *are* overlaps. That's why I suggest mapping it like I did - it's a clean, concise way to understand how the overlaps work on a 2D map. As far as I saw, any other overlaps that would have been harder to map than a "+" ended up being a loop where I drew my lines instead anyway.
09/06/2017 01:39 PMPosted by
Sherree
I'm tempted to do it again on the other character I leveled through up to the
Maze following this map.
It's unique to each character, it won't be the same map as mine. However, it's also unique to each *day,* too. So do it on your main again, you'll get a different map if it's a different day.
Oh I know I meant the map idea. Randomly generating new mazes helped me eventually pass it. I realized there were dead ends too and the curse add on actually helped at the end.
09/06/2017 03:47 PMPosted by
Sherree
...
It's unique to each character, it won't be the same map as mine. However, it's also unique to each *day,* too. So do it on your main again, you'll get a different map if it's a different day.
Oh I know I meant the map idea. Randomly generating new mazes helped me eventually pass it. I realized there were dead ends too and the curse add on actually helped at the end.
Gotcha, well return here with your map, would love to see it :)
09/06/2017 02:37 PMPosted by
Flan
I disagree with the idea that there cannot be any duplicate orb/rune rooms. One of the maps I did had two blue orb rooms with exits in different directions in different locations on my map. (However, this seems to be rare.)
Everything else matches my experience.
Categorically false. Sorry, you're misremembering your orb room then, or got turned around (it's easy to get turned around w.r.t. your map with a random port), happened to me too - I backtracked to what I thought was the "different" orb room of the same color according to my map, and realized I wrote the walls down wrong on my first map of that room - I got turned around and switched two of the walls originally.
Or you entered the next day and had a different map.
There are NO duplicates. This has been confirmed by several people mapping their instance (and several of their instances over the past few days) on the secrets discord according to our mapping method. This isn't statistically irrefutable proof, sure, but it's enough to say confidently there are NO duplicates. The entire objective of the instance makes no sense with duplicates, either.
You CAN completely prove me wrong, though, if you turn in that orb and walk back to your supposed "duplicate" and still see it there. Do that and I'll concede, but otherwise it should be considered categorically false.
When I turned in one, both disappeared.
One room had exits in North South West, the other north south east.
I revisited each multiple times to make sure i had recorded them properly.
So either multiple orb rooms is possible or the map rotating is possible (although this may be a glitch or rare.)
09/06/2017 04:01 PMPosted by
Flan
...
Categorically false. Sorry, you're misremembering your orb room then, or got turned around (it's easy to get turned around w.r.t. your map with a random port), happened to me too - I backtracked to what I thought was the "different" orb room of the same color according to my map, and realized I wrote the walls down wrong on my first map of that room - I got turned around and switched two of the walls originally.
Or you entered the next day and had a different map.
There are NO duplicates. This has been confirmed by several people mapping their instance (and several of their instances over the past few days) on the secrets discord according to our mapping method. This isn't statistically irrefutable proof, sure, but it's enough to say confidently there are NO duplicates. The entire objective of the instance makes no sense with duplicates, either.
You CAN completely prove me wrong, though, if you turn in that orb and walk back to your supposed "duplicate" and still see it there. Do that and I'll concede, but otherwise it should be considered categorically false.
When I turned in one, both disappeared.
One room had exits in North South West, the other north south east.
I revisited each multiple times to make sure i had recorded them properly.
So either multiple orb rooms is possible or the map rotating is possible (although this may be a glitch or rare.)
I think your first statement is enough to more-or-less prove you just recorded it incorrectly the first time you encountered it. It's extremely unlikely there are duplicates.
I found as I worked through the halls, so long as I avoided overlapping tiles I was able to solve the halls very quick.
It's easily solveable without overlapping any rooms.
It is also randomly generated, I was traveling while trying to solve this so I only had ~20min at a time to take a crack at it so it took me a few days to actually have enough time to sit down and do it.
At no time out of my very many attempts was the map the same.
09/06/2017 04:13 PMPosted by
Zushiba
I found as I worked through the halls, so long as I avoided overlapping tiles I was able to solve the halls very quick.
It's easily solveable without overlapping any rooms.
It is also randomly generated, I was traveling while trying to solve this so I only had ~20min at a time to take a crack at it so it took me a few days to actually have enough time to sit down and do it.
At no time out of my very many attempts was the map the same.
The map is procedurally generated once a day. So the map is fixed for the day, and unique to each player. If you did it over multiple days, you had a different map each day. It is NOT randomly generated as you play the maze. Guaranteed.
There are overlapping rooms in the map. Whether you solve it without overlapping any rooms is a different story (and entirely dependent upon the map), but the chance you have a map without an overlap is negligibly small if not flat out 0. The chance you have a map with overlaps that has the 10 markers connected without an overlap is a higher chance (if not flat out 0 as well), but still negligibly small.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
Categorically false. Sorry, you're misremembering your orb room then, or got turned around (it's easy to get turned around w.r.t. your map with a random port), happened to me too - I backtracked to what I thought was the "different" orb room of the same color according to my map, and realized I wrote the walls down wrong on my first map of that room - I got turned around and switched two of the walls originally.
Or you entered the next day and had a different map.
There are NO duplicates. This has been confirmed by several people mapping their instance (and several of their instances over the past few days) on the secrets discord according to our mapping method. This isn't statistically irrefutable proof, sure, but it's enough to say confidently there are NO duplicates. The entire objective of the instance makes no sense with duplicates...
I think your first statement is enough to more-or-less prove you just recorded it incorrectly the first time you encountered it. It's extremely unlikely there are duplicates.
I checked this multiple times and was able to walk between the two rooms on my map. I am very confident this can occur, and collecting one orb triggered the other to despawn. Plus we had multiple people in the room checking each others mapping.
The additional orb room may be related to the rune reapawns documented in another thread on General currently. I also had this occur in the same instance.
How large is the sample size of your Discord? Unless you have at least 1000 trials I wouldn't rule out any event that may happen rarely.
This pretty much sounds just like how I thought the maze worked, my guild-mates largely refused to believe I was right though and thought that mapping was a waste of time instead choosing to believe the maze was randomized constantly.
It's definitely a procedurally generated fixed layout, the random porting is what throws everyone who attempted to map it off.
When I was doing this everyone was fully aware that this is how it worked. The problem is going through the trouble of mapping it takes about as long as just running through it, 1 orb color at a time.
I should also mention: my "weird" map with the multiple orb rooms and runes that respawned but did not need to be completed was solved on a Tuesday morning-afternoon, which overlapped with daily reset and raid reset, so this may be related.
09/06/2017 04:26 PMPosted by
Flan
I should also mention: my "weird" map with the multiple orb rooms and runes that respawned but did not need to be completed was solved on a Tuesday morning-afternoon, which overlapped with daily reset and raid reset, so this may be related.
Orbs don't respawn that we know of yet (at least without a progress reset as well), runes do after about ~3 hours even if those entire 3 hours are while you're in the instance. The reset mechanics of the orbs are not fully known yet, same with the progress of turning in orbs (runes respawning does not reset your progress). Runes can respawn without their corresponding orb respawning. A map rotation definitely respawns the orbs, at a minimum, but other than that... *shrug*
The map resets with the daily quest reset, as well, according to my personal mappings. I verified this with my map. You probably had a map reset that's causing you to see "duplicates." Rather than a duplicate, you more likely had a different map. It's likely this map change can happen even while you're in the instance, but that itself is unverified.
Based on your observation, I'm going to make the unverified claim that orb progress, while it does reset at some point, may be on an actual timer rather than anchored to the daily quest reset like the map rotation is.