There’s a lot more players in the lower levels than there are the higher levels. Showing all keys would reflect how much the meta affects.
Understanding data > seeing data
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My thoughts on why Tanks tend to be lopsided is that the kind of person who likes pushing keys as a Tank doesn’t really care what Tank they do it on and because Tanks are all fundamentally similar on how they play.
Like you have some quirky tanks like BDK or Brewmaster, but if you know how to tank it’s not hard to learn how to cycle CD’s, maintain AM, etc. It’s ridiculously easy to PuG as a Tank compared to other roles and if you’re decent at Tanking you can do it with fairly minimal gear.
The end result of this is that good tanks tend to have multiple tanks in their roster, so as soon as the tanking meta gets figured out, it’s pretty easy to go “oh, I’m playing Paladin now” and have it ready for push weeks.
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Not really. Lower keys will represent general player class preference because they’re more accessible. As you go to high keys you start selecting for what’s viable. The impact of meta propagation to lower keys would be really difficult to measure.
Clearly we need to nerf Prot Warrior further
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tank participation rate in the 10-11 range (raider io):
warrior: 20.9%
paladin: 33.9%
BDK: 15.5%
Brewmaster: 6.5%
guardian: 11.6%
VDH: 11.7%
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Ahahaha, no.
They really need to take a look at balancing on a more regular basis is what they need to do. Warrior was OP in the first like 2 months, so they put the wheels in motion to nerf them, and then Paladin took over before warrior was even nerfed, but now warrior is still being nerfed even though they are clearly not that OP at the top end.
Paladin doesn’t so much need a nerf, but they need to for tanks and healers at least, bring the lower ones up. Like they haven’t even touched or mentioned BrM for the entire season, not even a single mention of anything, no changes, no bugs, no nerfs or buffs, not a single mention for the entire season at all.
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Right, but to combat the claim that meta snowballs down into lower key ranges, we can clearly see that the overall data isnt as heavily skewed that way.
It does to an extent, but even the 8-12 range has a wide variety instead of being shoehorned into the meta
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No you showed Data on 1 season that I had said had a near equal tank dominance.
My argument is that this is not the standard
I also don’t think it’s a wild take to not consider the meme season with 0 updates from S3
Instead of trying to go for instant dunks and talking about moving goal posts, maybe try having an honest conversation in good faith? Instead of telling me what I believe I can just tell you.
Because the meta is formed off of top runs. Why are you posting 10+?
Your graph then shows TWW S1 (10+) having a paladin dominance of lets say 28.5% with a 7.5% gap to the second most viable tank
Your graph shows DF S3 (20+) having a DH dominance of 26% with a 2% gap to the second most viable tank
So i’m not sure how the 1 season you cherry pick even helps? By cherry picking I mean you picked the single season I had already said had a terrible tank meta. You also demoted the criteria for seeing meta comps from my standard top 2000 runs to a random key number that is nearly impossible to compare due to not having all the affixes in, fort+tyr etc.
So all and all I just don’t really agree with your source because if you increase key levels you just don’t see even close to the level of dominance Ppal has on TWW.
For the shadowlands example, if you even increase the key just 13+ (which nearly 127k tanks have done), Ppal already has a higher dominance than a very very high, as high at is even goes… +25 SL S1 key (only 180 tanks).
And the same trend follows for all of BFA, all of shadowlands, and all of DF with the exception of DF S3 and the unchanged and unnerfed “S4” which I can’t make much clearer at this point.
So I’m not sure where this standard is you’re talking about, and I’m not sure you care about the truth as much as you care about winning a forum argument.
And I understand tank balance is traditionally pretty bad (not this bad), but the part that makes TWW feel worse in the dps and healer metas are also bricked.
Either you speak for the company, your dad is John Blizzard, or you need a source here lol
I gave you data from 4 seasons that show a similar pattern. You, on the other-hand, only used words. Giving me a website for one season doesn’t help your argument about seasonal patterns.
Why is it relevant to show cherry picked data of the top 2000 runs when that only includes the top .1%? Are you seriously suggesting +10 and up isn’t a better metric?
Again, the fact that I even found 1 singular season with worse numbers mean your argument is false. Objectively. Quit trying to move goal posts cause you lost.
I just gave data from your prefered raiderio
Yes, because +10 isn’t a push key, it’s saturated by vault farming. The higher the key the strength of the classes are more important, therefore people bring stronger classes, therefore the meta data is more accurate
You didn’t, funny you mention losing because
I mean look man, if you wanna win THAT bad i’ll just give it to you. I’de prefer that over trying to parse through all your biased data
If you think SL S1 had a worse tank meta after this:
There’s no saving you
I can tell you are looking at the chart on top of the season’s leader board. Any season before DF S3 is corrupted because dungeons were reused and how they generated the chart.
It’s painfully clear that you don’t understand the nuances of the data.
Do you seriously think only 10k Prot Paladins did a +20?
It was and anyone who actually played M+ at a decent level during that time would tell you that.
What’s the reason for this?
I literally just explained it to you.
I would like a data driven response if you’re going to discredit two different websites, maybe one of those unknown screenshots you refuse to post a source for?
You think only 18,000 characters got KSM in DF S1?
I already explained it to you. The pre-generated charts in old seasons and the cut off scores chart are corrupted if dungeons become reused. The data and charts I showed you were newly generated with specific filters to limit it to that season only.
Again, even if we don’t use SL S1 the fact that DF S4 had worse disproves your argument. You lost on multiple levels even after moving goalposts.
We’re done here, super bad faith “argument”
Lmao whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. I’ve dismantled all of your goalposts. Anyone that comes to this thread will see the data.
You can call my arguments “super bad faith” all you want, but I’m the only one here that provided multiple data points. All you literally did was post 1 link and think it’s enough to counter my multi-season data showing that the tank meta is normal.
byebye
Considering all I even asked for was a source, and never got one is pretty funny, never even wanted to argue but your points were ridiculous
byebye clown
I agree. A lot of players blame the meta for not being invited instead of realizing that a better applicant applied to the group. And by better I mean ilvl and experience.
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This.
This has so much truth and perspective that that many fail to include. It’s bleeding edge level, of cos everything is gonna be nearly the same.
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