Based on the raiding participation in beta of DF I think the raiding scene is on its last legs.
M+ is the future of WoW based on what I am seeing in beta.
I have to agree with this. Arm twisting players to do current raids for gear, so they can run old raids isn’t going to work.
Literally falling on deaf ears unless you have enough sway to effect their money. Blizzard all about money money money. you’re not a valued customer with an important viewpoint. You’re money or you’re in the way of their money.
BlizZard isn’t making money from designing raids because the return of investment is poor IMO. That is why LFR still exists despite player complaints. So raid development can subsidized and create a justification to continue to develop raids for a shrinking raid population.
Right now M+ offers less costs and greater return of investment for BlizZard. Actually I think the reason why M+ is so popular is the same reason why 10 man raiding was so popular in WotLK.
BlizZard is going to have to learn old lessons learned a decade ago once more with DF.
The only lesson they’re interested in is how to set up the sub plan to best extract as much money out of each individual player while providing the least amount of value so that they can charge more money for valuable goods. They don’t give a heck about raid design or what’s best investment for player time… they want you to pay them for a year so they can give you a few hours of content and sell you more mounts on top of that.
While that may be all true you have to look deeper.
They want to entice people to raid with how they funnel players but it hasn’t worked since what MoP?
But MoP ironically had more for solo, duo, or 5 man parties to do.
Without the introductions of M+ in Legion the game would have strayed too far down the path of Wildstar.
To be clear in the history of MMORPGs duo, small parties or solo is the norm for the majority of players. Even in classic when you set up a raid it was rare and special time and not something that occurred day in and day out.
This is why I have talked to many others about this and they agree. They liked raiding in old WoW structure and despise the new raiding structure of WoW.
These players now prefer M+, small parties, duos or solo game play now.
WoW has drifted too far away from what raiding used to be about which is why there is an increasing demand for alternative gear paths outside of raiding.
M+ is a good example and I think M+ is the future of the game. Solo progression is going to be hard to add as long as raiding is competing for player time. But raiding is also having the issue of competing against M+. And right now M+ is simply far superior for a lot of players.
Basically what I am saying there is room for raiding solo and M+ game play. But BlizZard is focused on trying to make raiding the best game in town when it simply hasn’t been since MoP based on player interest.
But despite what understandings we may have about the MMO genre, this is exactly what Blizzard does. I don’t think it goes without saying that over the years, Blizzard has continuously made more concessions for solo players. They’ve just gone about it the wrong way and have designed a game in which people feel forced to do content they may not be interested in playing.
Based on the raiding participation in beta of DF I think the raiding scene is on its last legs.
Do you have raid participation numbers of Shadowlands beta?
On this I agree. ZM should have gotten a bump in ilevel to around 265. That would have made access to high content more smooth.
But let’s be honest here, solo players were complaining about gear LONG before season 4 came around. In seasons one thru three you could solo your way to normal raid level gear and there were still players on these very forums demanding higher ilvel which would have put them in heroic and mythic territory. And I’ll never support that.
I’m not even being snotty
I’m being blunt.
If you think I’m an elitist you’re not very smart.
I’m sorry you can’t handle facts.
You like everyone else ignore what we say.
We don’t have a problem with solo gameplay or people that play solo.
However you’re never going to get heroic or mythic level gear from solo content. It’s just not going to happen.
Considering achievements show 60% of the player base has raiding achievements I would disagree.
It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with when they allow raid testing. Mythic testing happened for one hour during the middle of the day when most people are at work.
Here is the simple thing that needs to be done.
Dungeons, Heroic dungeons, World Quest, Dailies whatever all gives tokens for players to gear out with decent gear. That same token can be used to upgrade gear to catch up with raiders.
Raiders don’t need to do it, unless they want to do it for certain pieces. They would gear up faster doing raids.
Making all content matter, gives each players a path. Is it really that hard to understand? i feel like Blizzard are these old people who cling on to something that the rest of the world moved on from.
Look it is not hard, Design a game where all play styles feel rewarded. If you want more people to do raids. Make the rest of the game fun, and people might be willing to try it.
How does solo players having decent gear diminish your experience in anyway?
Is it really just “now I’m not as special because I’m only 20 ilvls above them with my mythic gear instead of 60” ?
Here is a bit of news. No one thinks you are special because you have mythic raid gear or a higher item level. People just want to make their characters the best they can be in their own way. For some that is through solo methods. Like solo crafting grinds or mage tower esque challenges.
Basically there should be a way for solo players to earn high tier end game gear with the time and effort they put into the game. And no, raiding and mythic plus are not the only ways to put time and effort into the game. Get over yourselves if you think that.
No.
You’re not going to get gear above a normal raid level.
They literally already do.
Should we remove gear from the game? Have everything pre-set and people can just do activities for no reward.
And wow will keep paying the price. No skin off my nose. 
Wow better learn quick.
They already get normal level raid gear. Anything higher affects raiders and adds yet another chore they need to do.
No. It has to do with game design. This game awards gear based on difficulty of content.
There is zero solo content that should award higher than normal level raid gear.
How does my comment suggest anything even remotely similar to that?
Also another point just to get ahead of people. If you think no one will raid if they can get good gear elsewhere, then maybe, just maybe that means many people don’t like raiding. Weird right?
WoW isn’t paying a price. You just hear a very low minority crying they can’t get bis gear from killing boars.
Solo usually equals drastic nerf in difficulty. There was visions, wouldn’t mind that system returning.
Hm, when other mmos doing better than wow, and the number drop happen so badly that they did drastic changes with shadowland that did not even work.
Oh and mid tier of an expansion the lowest raiding and mythic groups being done. This expansion has hurt wow dearly, so much so that they made an expansion with a new flying design at the start, and trade skill revamp focus. Two things casuals like myself enjoy.
If we have an expansion that focus on mythics and raiding content mostly. Wow will pay. it is that simple.
Wow has no future if does not make casual players feel time invested is worth it.