I’m not ignoring what you said? i counter the things you said and the reasons why I feel like that. Just because I don’t agree with you does not mean that I ignoring you. I’m glad you are done, because you clearly think that someone does agree with you, is not reading what you are typing.
Noone said that you did not think solo content matters. You put much more value into power of gear into raiding, and I think power is not enough to get people to want to raid, that it is not a good enough reward for the time. So giving solo players a chance to reach said power is not that big of a deal.
I find it strange people still think the way you do.
I think hes just trolling, i don’t think anyone is saying that solo content should not matter at all. But the entire point of building an MMO is group play otherwise you could make a single player rpg with a multiplayer mode. There is 0 reason to invest so much in the online component of an MMO if you aren’t gonna take advantage of that to the fullest.
You don’t address what I say, you make assumptions. So countering anything is never going to happen.
You keep bringing up other MMOs, they don’t matter.
I wouldn’t doubt it in the slightest… he keeps pushing the same narrative over and over, then writing essays, explaining what the game “should” be… he doesn’t like WOW, he should go play those other MMOs he keep says blizzard should copy.
He’s the type of player that makes me hope solo content get’s removed down to the bare minimum.
I could also argue that because of games like WoW and FF14 there’s a LOT more people who don’t like MMOs playing MMOs because they get continually updated. I think there is merit in a genre that is essentially a single player with a campaign and some multiplayer modes BUT it also gets updated regularly. A game that comes to mind would be Path of Exile or diablo 4.
Some advice, just because we don’t agree does not mean I am trolling.
Like the other person, who thinks that power still matters in raiding. If the best gear matters that much. Why is it that hardest content had trouble getting players to do it?
We seen what happens when an expansion has amazing dungeons and raids, but lack luster everything else. WOD happens.
I will state it again, Power in video games is the most throw away thing. It has no long lasting means to your progression. The art and mounts you get from raiding matters way more than the power you get.
You can agree, or disagree with that. It is fine. Letting people who solo, get up to the power of raiders would not be that big of a deal. If raiding had its own perks of getting rare items, art styles, and mounts maybe even gearing up faster, but if we going to toss away said power in the next content patch. I see little value in having power being the main focus of raiding. it is silly.
I mean you can agree or not. Does not really matter at this point. I explain why I feel the way I do, and the reason base off my feelings.
I would have thought it obvious that you’d still have to play the content to get the gear. Rng + deterministic with currency. Sure casual gear will reach the ilvl a bit slower but it’ll get there.
Far from mailing gear, but OK let’s take it to that extreme. Is it the fear of being equal to those “casual players” that’s so scary? Is your worth only as big as your ilvl? A metric that gets deleted every season? Or are achievements more important and the rewards they give: cosmetic transmogs, mounts, titles?
Because not everyone cares about power, also i would like to say that the problem with WoW raiding is not in its rewards but its format. I would argue that most of the playerbase PUGs raids, and the reason they do that if i could guess is because they prefer the drop in drop out nature of it. The problem is that the current structure of raiding facilitates organized guild groups over PUGs, this is why a LOT of people prefer FF14 raiding because each boss is segmented and can be done in a drop in drop out format.
I don’t think you’re trolling because you’re disagreeing, its because you don’t seem to be arguing in good faith when you say things like “group content isn’t the main focus” if what you meant is organized group content isn’t the focus i could get behind that. But even happening upon a world boss that’s being killed by a group even if you don’t directly interact with people IS group content.
How is that not good faith? I’m not saying group content does not matter, but should not be the main focus of a mmo.
I mean at this point that is common sense? I mean even Final Fantasy has NPCS that lets you do dungeons, and coming out with content that is heavily based off solo.
Always should be a balance, but to say a MMO main goal is to get players to do group content. I question that mindset fully, and gave examples while that is not the case.
Does group content matter? yes, Is it the main focus of a MMO. No. It is that simple. That is not bad faith.
Also you could be right how wow design raids is a problem as well, but even with that design in mind. POWER is not good enough reward for what they design raids for. Even if you made the raids like final fantasy, do you think power is enough?
Preach. Power has not been part of raiding for ages, if ever. All that matters is hitting the ilvl line and the rest is skill based: doing mechanics, making correct comps, and the most common - waiting for nerfs because the content is too hard.
If ilvl didn’t exist for mythic raiding (e.g was normalised to max season ilvl) literally NOTHING would change for the mythic raiding experience, you go there for the experience, to do the bosses properly and defeat them, to get the mogs and mounts and titles.
The reason FF14 is doing that stuff is because they want to cater to NON mmo players but rather JRPG players and have an MMO on the side. The MSQ is solid enough to be a single player RPG.
As for the raids rewards… personally, if the only reason you are doing some type of content is because of the rewards then you don’t enjoy that type of content in the first place and its a good thing you don’t think the rewards are sufficient. Blizzard tries too much to push players into content they don’t enjoy with the allure of rewards.
And I agree with you. Wow raiding design is flawed, and that leads to tons of problems as well.
For that community to rebuild. It needs to first have a decent ground work. It needs to cater to soloers, and start fixing the community. It needs to design raiding to respect players time, and offer more than just “power”.
Group content matters, but unless you get players enjoying the game outside of it. You will not get players wanting to do dungeons or groups.
You can design the coolest raid in the world, but if the solo content, and base game itself does not respect your time, and does not have carrots for them to chase that is worth it to them. You will not build up a big raiding community.
More so with the whole phasing tech, and Group Finder replacing guilds.
Ah but that’s my point, GW2 has solid world content but is it actually “solo”? You’re confusing group content with organized group content. If you’re running around and happen upon an event that has 4-5 players participating is that “solo” content? GW2 has the best world content in the business but is it solo?
For me yes, if you can easily get into it based off a solo play style that is solo.
Sure it has other players around you helping you fight, but it is still a solo style of play leading to group.
I guess that line gets blur when we toss in group finder, but I would say that is not really solo play going into group play as you are signing up for something. While your example i would consider it soloing still helping other players.
Then this is a semantics argument as I don’t consider that solo content.
Solo content, by definition doesn’t require other players to complete, an MMO should strive to have group content in its world and almost always have at least a small group of players trying to participate organically. That is how you create initial bonds that lead to organized group play.
Ya, and I don’t agree with that take. Not saying you are wrong, but if I am playing by myself and see a group attacking a boss. My solo playstyle lead to said fight, I don’t consider myself grouping with players when I help with said boss as my goal is to not work as a team, but to kill said boss while staying alive.
Group play is not the same thing as that for me. That is still in my eyes solo play.
I enjoy a good PB&J, too, but when everybody else is getting steak sandwiches it’s only natural that solo players expect the same.
I’m not even talking about gear. I’ve never even mentioned gear as part of my argument. I know that other people have, but my approach in this situation is less gear-oriented and more quality-oriented.
I don’t care about gear as long as the content is fun. WoW’s solo content hasn’t been fun for quite some time and nobody should realistically be arguing against the idea that it should be better. Better solo content benefits everyone.
However, I will say that the nerf to LFR was unnecessary. Normal-level raid gear was fine and didn’t upset the balance of the game. Everybody prior to the nerf had no issues with solo content being able to get normal raid gear and now everybody is against it. Feels a bit bad faith, if you ask me.
Exactly on that second point. I was even okay with the change to how long the grind to get it was when they made it longer. Nerfing it to LFR ilvl means they should revert to the previous currency levels and aquisition method.
On the point of gear, I would have no problem with the gear I get from open world content if Blizz would fix their legacy content scaling issues. If their solution is to get better gear, I will naturally ask for that better gear from my chosen form of content. Blizz could solve the issues they caused with all the various squishes they’ve done and not just kind of shrug it off and tell us better gear will fix it, instead they take the lazy way.
I wish Hironobu (that’s his name, aye? From FF) could take over WoW. Game would be 100x better. Hell, I think if Blizz gave fans one month to turn this game around it would be 100x better.
It’s so disheartening after playing other games with amazing communication, amazing world content and constant updates to see what WoW has become. I just love WoW and have history and I love my ne/chad bear or I’d be long gone to games that respect their players way better.
Look at the end of the day, they remove themselves from the community the second they refuse to do any other content. You don’t make an MMO with the expectation that player-base is only gonna do content they can do by themselves.
That was on my original post, so I make sure it’s going through.
Yea, I’m all for more content that is fun… my only issue is gear. The more content that happens to be fun, the better. You’ll get no argument from me there.
You know what, that’s fine. I won’t argue against that either. I’ve been against them getting gear since the beginning, can probably find earlier posts from me on here… as long as the gear doesn’t go beyond base raid level gear, I’m kosher on the subject.