End the war on solo gameplay in WoW

[Eternosus-galakrond (Eternosus)]

@Snozh-malganis

MMORPGs award gear based on difficulty.

Would you be willing to support a hard ban on all carries to preserve the integrity of that difficulty-reward relationship?

[Entilza-area-52]

I definitely would. Of course, I want to see the token removed also. Likely never happen though.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Eleusia-myzrael

Then you also can’t in good faith comment about the issue of WoD’s stark absence of solo progression until 6.2 Tanaan Jungle. Players who were happily raiding in 6.0 or 6.1 had no idea what the game was like for a solo or casual player.

Hence why I said I cant comment on that.

@Eleusia-myzrael

I agree that the pruning was bad, but how can we judge that the pruning was the cause of the mass exodus, when most specs were again repruned to make way for Legion’s artifact weapons, and some specs have never fully recovered? We would need to see sub numbers go up and down along with unprunings and prunings to find a correlation.

Theres no proof of either, however pruning is more believable than solo players not getting gear because they never have had strong gear given to them

@Eleusia-myzrael

ZM is not even a complete progression system, at it leaves out 3-4 gear slots.

What slots are you not able to get from ZM?

@Eleusia-myzrael

Then Season 4 may offer absolutely no progression for solo players.

Its a .5 patch, its not supposed too.

@Eleusia-myzrael

By the way, what players deserve or don’t deserve is a subjective matter of opinion. Being “delusional” means that someone is refusing to accept objective reality, not that they disagree with someone else about who deserves what.

Actually no its not. MMORPGs have always rewarded gear based on the content difficulty. You do easy content means you dont get best rewards. Its not a hard concept.

@Eleusia-myzrael

And while we are on the topic of reality, the game had more subs when solo players could get higher than Normal, by the way.

And zero evidence thats is the reason why.

@Eleusia-myzrael

How have WoW’s raids been “hit super hard”?

Raiders have been having roster issues since 9.0 meaning raiders are quitting the game too.

Probably has to do with loot drops from bosses being reduced as well as MPlus being a better source to gear up especially early patch.

@Eleusia-myzrael

WoW has consistently been releasing well designed raids, even at the expense of other content.

Raiding is the primary endgame and direction of the game. It is always going to come first.

@Eleusia-myzrael

WoW devs are jumping through hoops each patch to make raiders feel better rewarded, even at the expense of other content.

No they arent, this is a flat out lie.

@Eleusia-myzrael

I never said that all of any group of people was solo players. All we can know for sure is that less than half of WoW’s subscribed players do Normal+ raiding, M+, or rated PvP on a serious level. A lot of those players are solo.

Source for your numbers? because achievements disagree with you.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Snozh-malganis

Source for your numbers?

“because I said so” -OP

[Snozh-malganis]

@Eternosus-galakrond

Would you be willing to support a hard ban on all carries to preserve the integrity of that difficulty-reward relationship?

Boosting doesnt affect me at all. Even so they are still doing the content whether they get carried or not.

[Entilza-area-52]

That was a question challenging the justification that harder content deserves better rewards. Which should be true, but when people invalidate it with boosting, the logic falls thru.

At this point, if they don’t ban boosting, there is no justification for access to better gear to be limited when it has nothing to do with earning it anymore. So I have to concede their point.

HOWEVER, I still do not think they should divert limited dev resources to building up solo content. The pay off there is just not there for their small population. And most of their efforts with things like torghast have been busted. They had 1 success with mage tower and it was a win and done, no need to repeat design unfortunately.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Entilza-area-52

That was a question challenging the justification that harder content deserves better rewards. Which should be true, but when people invalidate it with boosting, the logic falls thru.

But it doesnt. They are still doing the content, they just are buying the carry instead of doing the progression. Boosting will never go anywhere even if it was banned.

@Entilza-area-52

At this point, if they don’t ban boosting, there is no justification for access to better gear to be limited when it has nothing to do with earning it anymore. So I have to concede their point.

See above. You still have to do the content whether you pay to be carried or you progress it. Its still more effort than killing 20 dredgers in xyz

[Jhannae-bronzebeard (Jhannae)]

@Eternosus-galakrond

Would you be willing to support a hard ban on all carries to preserve the integrity of that difficulty-reward relationship?

Buying a carry doesnt give you advantage. You could get titles. You could get gear but you wont get the max ilevel gear unless you spend more than $400. And if you spend $400, to me you are a loser. With all the high gear you get, you would still not be able to stand at your own feet doing high level content becoz you would lack experience. You would bring wipe to a group you join.

If you buy KSM around $400, you would get some ilevel 262 gear and only 2x ilevel 278 from Vault. Your total ilevel would just be around ilevel 265s which is not enough for you to be desirable on current M+15s and Heroic Raids. Desirable people at M+15s right now are at ilevel 275s. Good luck with your money.

[Entilza-area-52]

putting yourself on follow between deaths at each boss is a lot of effort. Well, if I ever bought a boost, that’s how it would go down. If I’m paying, they doing all the work while I netflix.

So I totally disagree with “they’re still doing the content” part of what you said. You’re being carried. You’re really not doing anything.

[Bloodypaws-frostmourne]

@Snozh-malganis

Its not though. MMORPGs award gear based on difficulty.

Problem is though players aren’t going to stick around for the long grinds required just to get over the hurdles in raiding.

It’s boring and frankly unrewarding in the long haul since your average joe can pick up something like Elden Ring and get more enjoyment out of it since it’s been better designed to complement the player that likes to explore. To do open world content.

Clinging to the laurels of the past just isn’t going to cut it anymore for WoW. The prestige in raiding has long since been sold out by boosters.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Entilza-area-52

putting yourself on follow between deaths at each boss is a lot of effort. Well, if I ever bought a boost, that’s how it would go down. If I’m paying, they doing all the work while I netflix.

So I totally disagree with “they’re still doing the content” part of what you said. You’re being carried. You’re really not doing anything.

You are entitled to your opinion, we will just have to agree to disagree.

However Blizz will never give BiS gear for solo content.

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

Problem is though players aren’t going to stick around for the long grinds required just to get over the hurdles in raiding.

Thats their personal problem then.

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

It’s boring and frankly unrewarding in the long haul since your average joe can pick up something like Elden Ring and get more enjoyment out of it since it’s been better designed to complement the player that likes to explore. To do open world content.

So then they can go do that.

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

Clinging to the laurels of the past just isn’t going to cut it anymore for WoW. The prestige in raiding has long since been sold out by boosters.

Boosting has been in game since Vanilla.

[Bloodypaws-frostmourne]

@Snozh-malganis

So then they can go do that.

I see you fail to grasp the issue.

@Snozh-malganis

Boosting has been in game since Vanilla.

That boosting exists is symptomatic of another issue.

[Snozh-malganis]

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

I see you fail to grasp the issue.

I grasp your perceived issue and entitlement clearly. I simply dont care about them.

@Bloodypaws-frostmourne

That boosting exists is symptomatic of another issue.

Then get good.

[Dagonet-nemesis]

The more I live, the more impressed I get at how some people are worried about other people living their own lives in their own way. Like, can’t I enjoy an mmorpg just cause it’s a game that have a story that gets constant updates? Or maybe I just like to walk around killing mobs in open world, who cares? I certainly don’t pay to play with people, I just pay to play. Damn, people are crazy annoying

[Snozh-malganis]

So go find a game that aligns with what you want. WoW and MMORPGs arent what you want.

[Dagonet-nemesis]

You don’t own anything I play and don’t pay for anything I do. You know absolutely nothing about what I want

[Snozh-malganis]

Never claimed too, however you are the one wanting the game to cater to you even though this is how its been mostly since launch.

[Dagonet-nemesis]

You’re putting words in my mouth, I never asked for anything like what you said

[Snozh-malganis]

@Dagonet-nemesis

You’re putting words in my mouth, I never asked for anything like what you said

Riiight

@Dagonet-nemesis

The more I live, the more impressed I get at how some people are worried about other people living their own lives in their own way. Like, can’t I enjoy an mmorpg just cause it’s a game that have a story that gets constant updates? Or maybe I just like to walk around killing mobs in open world, who cares?

You can do this just fine

[Dagonet-nemesis]

Yeah, the words are yours, I never asked for what you said I did, and never said I couldn’t do what I want to. I don’t know if you bothered to check, but I’m not the OP