That still isn’t viable enough.
You can’t justify not giving players more options just for the fear that your achievement in raiding is going to be devalued.
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Bloody,
would you be happy with a progression path that made use of Torghast, maybe ending with taking down a shade of the jailer but to get that, you had to complete the top layers of all torghast wings solo, possibly with a score of at least 3 stars, if not 4 or flawless?
It’s plenty viable enough. It’s literally normal raid level gear. Solo players don’t deserve anything higher then that.
I know you don’t know how mmos work but the harder the content the better reward. Solo content should never award higher than normal raid gear because of how easy solo content is.
We can measure the games life span in weeks if the game went your way.
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Torghost giving gear would actually be an incentive to play.
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Yet thats how the games been since launch so as usual you are wrong again.
No. It was much easier to get gear in BFA.
Shadowlands has thrown up multiple hurdles just to get into bloody LFR.
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To make it fair, I’d have either bonuses active just in Torghast or an ilvl difference for the gear while in Torghast. You know, so the mythic raiders don’t feel forced to do it for gear, but those that make Torghast their end game would be able to do so, and progress, the way they want.
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I would have done so much more Torghast had it given gear and better rewards. Would have pushed higher and higher and had the incentive to.
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Then we would have to deal with the ones that don’t want challenging solo content and the ones that think solo players don’t deserve anything. People need to be happy with what they get and ask for more of that, not ask for things to be changed for them at the cost of other’s enjoyment.
I think their best bet would be to give solo content that scales. Do as a little or as much as you want.
Kinda like a 2 key, beyond ez and a 20, gotta think about it. Ya know?
Game needs to evolve. Things change.
We did that. They all went to Wildstar and it failed because the 40 or so players that think like that couldnt support that kind of hardcore game.
EQ only continues to exist because its addiction was drastically more than WoW’s and the hardcore there will be there till the servers close.
My last guild in EQ on a TLP was basically people who didnt work and only played the game full time.
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People who do raids or M+ on a hardcore level are going to start each season with Normal item levels, and immediately move on to earning Heroic then Mythic item levels. Some players were even clearing +15s the first couple of weeks in 9.2 for 278 rewards.
If casual and solo content awards Normal gear (and theoretically Heroic gear far into the season if there were some system or feature that awards it), why would raiders and M+ players be forced to do content for downgrades? Cypher gear started off at 233, and it took days or weeks of consistent gameplay to have the right to earn 252 gear, let alone see it spawn for every slot.
Titanforging, AP grinding, and currency grinding for conduit upgrades are gone. It makes no actual sense to claim that casual and solo rewards threaten hardcore content. Players that do raids or M+ but not on a hardcore level might actually appreciate whatever upgrades they can get.
I want WoW to be a great game for all types of players. But that can’t happen if the hardcore players demand that the game be gutted simply for their own vanity, and the devs keep giving in.
Casual and solo rewards should never be max item level or BiS. It makes no actual sense to claim that raiders would be “forced” to do content for downgrades.
If raiders with bad luck need a slot upgraded really badly, then let them follow their own mantra and do the content that gives the rewards.
Yes! And that doesn’t just apply to you.
How are WoW devs still killing their own game just for kudos from the hardcore minority?
Well said.
Raider brains addled with elitism still can’t seem to process the simple reality that WoW sub numbers have always been proportional to the quality and quantity of non-raiding content and rewards.
WoD had fantastic raids, for example, but solo and casual players had no meaningful progression options because the Justice / Valor system had been removed, so the number of WoW players dropped so low that Blizzard no longer published them.
Legion was frustrating for hardcore raiders, but sub numbers shot up because the expansion was full of both gear rewards and unique content for non-raiders.
Both.
9.2 is not passable because the Cypher system needs to include all gear slots, and needs to go up to 259, as the Korthia system did for all slots up to 233 in 9.1.
Season 4 is practically an insult to the casual and solo playerbase because it will neither add nor rescale power progression systems outside of raiding, M+, and PvP.
Numerous threads have discussed this, but MoP’s Valor system for example allowed players to buy Normal raiding iLvl gear from vendors (which was just 13 item levels below the max Heroic raiding) after doing Heroic dungeons or daily quests, or BfA’s last patch allowed players to earn Heroic raiding item level or higher by soloing Visions, doing faction assaults, or doing unrated PvP.
Yes, exactly.
The gap was never this wide in the past.
Devs overtune world content and Torghast to keep raiders from complaining that it is not threatening enough, but then it becomes frustrating for the more casual players and new alts.
But when it is suggested that the gear gap be narrowed by bumping up solo and casual rewards, suddenly hardcore rewards (which are still higher in item level) are “invalidated” and “the bads want max iLvl BiS for doing Flappy Birds”.
The essence of the MMORPG is stepping into an open world with and experiencing a slow rise to power or wealth. Even if I just go out on my own and kill mobs to level up, I am surrounded by other players doing the same, and this is exactly how many players experienced MMORPGs during their golden age. Have you played any other MMORPGs?
Did you play Vanilla? The bulk of the game was leveling in the open world, and most quests were soloable. The development of the base game took years. But the first raid was thrown together in a week and tacked on just to keep max-level players subscribed.
Sounds very familiar. Many, many WoW players used to raid, but have stayed with the game. Even more former raiders would have stayed if there were power progression paths that fit their time constraints and interests.
9.2.5 is going to start off as a typical .5 systems improvement patch, but ultimately the content on the way is officially being called “Season 4” and features an entire major patch’s worth of progression but only for select players.
Perhaps devs want to avoid releasing Season 4 in a patch called “9.3” to avoid the glaring issue that there is no rescaled outdoor content and no content for casual and solo players.
It would not have been impossible to add some sort of assault or invasion to pre-existing zones. BfA 8.1 and 8.3 did this nicely. Even 9.1 outdoor content was basically a rehash of existing assets.
For example, Devourer Invasions could spawn in base SL zones and offer 278/285 gear rewards through a currency system, similar to how the Legion pre-event functioned with Nethershards.
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I think there are a lot of difficulties that need to go tbh. We have (technically) 4 Dungeon difficulties and 4 Raid difficulties. It’s just too much.
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What difficulty(ies) do you cut?
Id say either LFR or mythic, or combine normal and heroic into 1
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If you cut mythic, you also kill what is probably the biggest free advertising/publicity event this game has (RWF).
What was that before mythic was a thing? what difficulty would that have been?
There always has been a race to clear the hardest difficulty, but if you cut mythic and keep heroic where it is now, the event would be over in a day or 2. If you cut mythic, and turn heroic up to the point where it basically is mythic (wrath-MoP), then you didn’t get rid of mythic, you got rid of heroic.
which is one reason my third option was combining normal and heroic into one.