I didn’t forget them, I didn’t mention them because those aren’t independent stories. You get that in WoW, there is one giant story right? Both factions experience that the same way, you can toss out random things like this here and there but it isn’t changing the actual story. Especially when they even have you experience the story from the other perspective.
But when you’re that obtuse, you’re so convinced in your own certainty, you fail to realize the obvious.
Never said I can’t be wrong, I just know that I’m not.
There is no reason not to keep players from cross faction play.
Period.
The faction conflict has largely been ignored for the last 15 years lol.
Outside of PvP, every interaction between the factions storywise is absolutely minor and fall back on insane NPCs leading their troops to battle, which puts both sides in conflict with a 3rd party, not each other.
I’m actually very familiar with lore. Every big bad, is a combined effort to win.
None of this actually prevents cross faction play though, the beef from Greymane is with Sylvanas. The beef with Tyrande is with Sylvanas. Neither trusts the horde, but their actual beef is with Sylvanas.
However I may personally feel about it, NPC dialogue confirms that many of them are doing exactly that. They accept the “Sylvanas did it” conclusion and are moving on.
I hate to say it since we’re on the same side here, but you are wrong on this point. Chronicles confirmed that a lot of the early expansion raids were taken down by forces from one faction or the other.
From about Cataclysm on though I’d say just about everything has been joint efforts.
Chronicles has also been largely discredited in lore areas for quite awhile since all of the retconns done over the years. It stopped being the go to lore resource ages ago. Considering these big bads were also slain by players themselves, credit goes to both factions.
If you add to what I said, the context of what I responded to, which was that “each faction was never given a separate story”, you’ll see what I mean and how to say that it never happened just because it was in the past, and several times, doesn’t make it any more correct.
No, they don’t experience it in the same way. That’s the whole point.
Oh there you go again with the insult. But hey, I’m not the one spouting things as facts when things you’re saying can be easily proven wrong.
And that is your opinion. Opinions can be wrong.
Again. I’ll put it in a single, separated sentence so you can catch it with ease.
Faction conflict not being a thing doesn’t mean factions shouldn’t remain separated and dsitinct.
As I said, I can’t blame you for not caring about the lore. But again, what you’re saying here it’s objectively false.
If you do know the lore why do you keep ignoring the fact that both sides have always experienced things differently and this is very clear in the lore?
It’s still the canon source until something else countermands it. It’s in canon that Alliance killed Rag, Horde killed Kael’thas, etc. That has not been retconned.
Distinct, fine. But there’s not a single valid reason they should remain separated.
They can be distinct. But they can still at least group up together. As much as I would love factions to be nuked from orbit so the WoW lore and story can improve beyond sub-grade level quality, I would settle with a truly repulsive story if we just could group up with the other factions.
Also, it is amusing you care about lore when all of the problems with how horrible the story is right now is directly traceable to whenever the faction conflict rears its ugly, disfigured skull.
Per Blizzard’s writing, the alliance NPCs are only blaming Sylvanas now. So even the NPCs can’t be bothered to continue the faction war after the fact, why should we.
If stated as fact, sure. But you would need to then provide facts to show it as wrong.
There is actually no reason to keep the factions separate anymore.
Actually it does. There’s no reason to keep them separated from one another if they are doing the exact same content.
Same dungeons.
Same raids.
Same overarching story.
It’s only staying because of the misguided belief that they should be separated, thankfully, other developers don’t feel the same way and those that do, keep the game PvP focused like it should be.
Experiencing things differently doesn’t change the story lol.
You and I can read the same book and have two completely different experiences with it, it doesn’t change the story, only the perspective of the reader lol.
They’re already distinct, but yes, no reason to keep separated other than to appease the fossils who don’t like change.
The problem with Chronicles and the game itself is that people killed Rag on both sides, the same with Kael’thas, etc.
None of these fights, in game, is exclusive to Horde or Alliance outside of those faction specific ones for character development, i.e., Saurfang’s son or Dazar.
I wouldn’t oppose a mercenary mode for PvE as well.
But a pool for LFG shared by everyone? Oh, that’s a huge nope from me. Far too many complications would emerge from that.
We already had this debate. And I’ll tell you the same I told you in the past. if you think that the problem was the faction conflict, then I don’t know what to tell you, because the issue with WoW lore it’s much bigger than that. MoP handled the faction conflict much better, not perfectly, but if we’re to compare it to BFA, then it was near pristine.
Also, as I said in the past, settling for mediocrity is not my style. Just because they did it poorly, I won’t sit and tell them to not try it again. I will ask them for them to do it better.
The only way to do it better is to actually go into the conflict and make it center stage, which they’ve already said they won’t.
So they’ll continue as they have for the last 15 years by making it background noise and serving no real purpose.
It’s one of those crap or get off the pot decisions. No point keeping the conflict going if you’re not going to run with it and let it happen across the players base.
All you have to prove that is pessimism and speculation. I think you’re over-estimating the number of people that will be dicks for the sake of faction pride, and under-estimating how much it would help the game to not have the playerbase artificially separated.
Did you read the npc dialogue?
They want Sylvanas, period.
Funny enough, I did Ony on both factions, so did millions of other players. And in game guess who actually gets credit? Sure aint Varian.
This is the problem with Chronicles and why anyone serious about the lore considers it a joke because it isn’t how things are actually happening in game.
The game would only grow. Over the years seen enough people leave because they wanted to be one specific race or part of a faction that wasn’t where their friends were. It’s always divided the playerbase which isn’t healthy for the long term of your game unless you make that the core focus of your game.
No, that’s not the only way to do it. But to start with this idea to do it right, they would have to start fixing issues they started with Cataclysm and that only got worse with time, specifically speaking, the power gap between the sides.
Again, just because you want to act as if factions don’t experience things differently just because gameplay mechanics exist, then that’s not my issue. But then again, you called Chronicles not canon
is it pessimism or it is realism. This is the internet after all.
But what? Now a mercenary mode it’s not good enough? Geeze.
I don’t know, so many people play both factions now, it likely would only be an issue for a bit.
Also, it could be that people who want to maintain the faction conflict simply opt in with WM on and those who don’t mind cross faction play can flag WM off.
We have, I remember this conversation and I still stand by it. Yes, MoP handled the faction conflict far better. We both agree there, and I’d go a step further and say it was the first time lore made sense across the board, with Horde and Alliance fighting each other as well as the enemy.
However, the faction conflict is the issue with the story. The evidence can be seen by the fact that zone specific stories are usually pretty decent to high quality (Drustvar is absolutely amazing). But the moment the faction conflict comes into play, there are inconsistencies, characters have to act brain dead to make the decisions they make for the faction war to exist. Certain things have to be flat out forgotten to make the faction war even make sense; why hasn’t the Alliance nuked the Horde from orbit? They literally have spaceships. But those aren’t used at all.
We can agree to disagree. I believe you wanting to stick with the faction conflict is settling for mediocrity as it prevents any organic growth from this world. Remaining with two static factions ensures that the story will never evolve, and I despise settling for stagnation. We both want them to do better, we just disagree what better is.
