And assigning Garroshs evil to those inherent racial qualities is literally what I said is the problem.
They should not have attributed his evil to his being too much of an Orc. They should not have attributed his actions to his race.
But they did.
It should’ve been attributed to his personal life choices because he has never given the tools to grow growing up as he had been ostracized his whole life.
Aka strictly personal choice and culture
I feel as if we are both saying the same thing in a different way, and kinda talking past each other. so imma just give you a
…
Then it turns out that the culture of the orcs is subject to destruction / recycling because … the culture encourages … a mistake.
Auch. Hiss.
Can the following statement be justified? Statement: Orok children can (should) be isolated from adult Orcs (by exterminating the latter or transferring / abducting the former); the goal is to destroy a culture that harms the reformers and orcs.
Here you can apply the stereotype that Africans are genetically better at running, so they take first places in the Olympics?
To me, the point of view that matters most is the framing of the story itself, not that of the characters. If the writers’ attention is focused way more on the villainy of one side, while being more forgiving of the other, then I feel that the work itself is nudging the audience toward a value judgment. Therefore, any characters that hold a view contrary to that are wrong. That’s why we get these seemingly-contradictory opinions of “the alliance actually started this and that but they’re the reactionary victims anyway.” I think what the story is trying to say trumps everything else.
Isn’t that what Baal was saying should have happened more with WoW? He was specifically praising in another post about how Zandalar had both good and ugly sides to it portrayed.
Among many other things, what made the Saurfang stuff especially awkward was Anduin promising to give him a lecture about honor and stuff like that. Not that WoW has ever been very consistent on what honor meant in the first place, but apparently Anduin knew more about it than Saurfang or something, since he needed a human’s guidance to find some kind of hope in it again.
What he was talking about were tropes, rather actual societal differences.
All the moral values are still the same, behave the same. The only differences accross them seems to be how they look and a gimick.
That was not what I gathered at all from the Saurfang and Andiun interaction.
Andiun was like a boy told stories about some people and when finally confronted by reality he was arguing against it while Saurfang was trying to smack some knowledge into him.
So to recap my point.
In real life I fully support the western liberal ideals for equality, self-determination respect and all that good stuff and I think all of humanity will eventually reach those ideals universally among all cultures.
But when I read a fantasy that is based on certain elements of human history and culture I want to see them raw. I want to see the dark underbelly and the good stuff too. Some call it grimdark but I disagree, I think its just more honest otherwise we are whitewashing how things really were back then.
Why should I expect a medieval society adhere to my sensibilities, much less an alien giant green skinned warrior race?
Yup. Kul Tirans too.
Both are perfect examples of Blizzard recognizing what ethnic group(s) and histories they’re borrowing from, and using their fantasy, myth, folklore, and history to shape the good and bad of the race and storyline.
Can’t say I fully agree with that - the Kul’Tirans were botched pretty hard, specifically with respect to the Drust. Blizzard seems to recognize the inherent colonialism parallels in their settlement on the island but desperately paint the indigenous people as intrinsically evil to justify it.
Plus, the whole coven thing… apparently a huge number of women in Drustvar felt alienated enough that they joined a malicious witch coven? But… why? Is Kul’Tiran society particularly Patriarchal? Obviously not, nearly every leader we meet there is a woman! Maybe it’s just Drustvar, specifically? The whole “Witch Trial” scene might suggest that, but it goes totally unexamined and unresolved.
Yup, but unlike prior iterations the ones being colonized aren’t a horde affiliated race but the Viking metaphor race.
A sort of reversal/parallel of the Viking settling of the British Isles and the Norman invasion of England.
It’s not a gold star construction, but they did do it right:
Let’s continue.
Does the Horde have a “divine” mindset?
That’s eugenics
Eugenics is about genetic selection, right? Breeding, breeding control, stuff like that. Not about the destruction of culture.
Aren’t you suggesting to breed out the undesirable traits, though?
No? It seems that I did not resort to selection. Perhaps cultural, not biological.
Forcibly removing the children of a race or religious group and having them be raised outside of their culture is part of the legal definition of genocide, by the way.
Please no xD
Perfectly. The main character is the Horde, the main villain is the Alliance, “moral dullness” for both sides. What could possibly go wrong?
Why? Besides the fact that I’m an jerk.
I will answer with a poem:
Ahem
This here thread,
should be dead.
No one will cry, nor will they shout once,
All sleep for a long time in eternal darkness,
Where there were gardens and fires blazed
There are statues in moss today. Sometimes they bring
Rather, they throw it, a product made of straw, glass.
And the garden will wake up and fall asleep again.
For a year, two three pebbles of sleep.
No rhyme, no sequence, but oh well.
Thanks.
The main character is the player. No matter what MMORG you play, the player character is the Hero, the Champion. The story literally revolves around your quest lines.