Well i should have put lvls 10 threw like 25. I was not talking about a lvl 60 obviously. I said the BETA is there lvl 60s in the beta NO.
You said you were watching people do it on the beta, you THEN said you couldn’t solo elites your own level back in the day, clearly not referring to the beta. I gave evidence on a single player soloing not elites, but whole appropriate level dungeons.
Even if you did mean just on levels 10-25, the answer is still yes: you can solo elites your own level through all those levels.
A certain level 12 streamer ran by a lvl 38 elite dwarf in badlands, got hit a couple times and lived to run away. Son or Arugal? Not a chance.
If your healer and tank was competant you could chain pull atleast a few packs.
Just testing one mob means Dungeon damage is fine? C’mon man. That’s not science.
If they didn’t tamper with the numbers, then clearly the numbers are exactly as they should be.
It could be fine, accidents do happen though. Maybe no one meant to change something, but they inadvertently did. Also, there’s the possibility like I mentioned that spell batching system is smoothing the damage out.
There are also definite changes between 1.12 and Beta. Like some instances aren’t there. The honor system isn’t there. It’s possible in changing that stuff that other stuff got changed too.
It also could be that 1.12 when it was built on the old servers actually built wrong and damage was incorrect. THe new 1.12 inhouse server may have been built correctly. We don’t know.
That’s basically why I wanted a rebalancing of all damage and make the game harder. The spirit of Vanilla WoW is more important than the metrics.
But, not going to argue, you and Blizzard are probably right.
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Well, they did say they’re not going to tamper with it because it’s not “theirs to tamper with.”
I’m not trying to claim to be right or wrong here, I’m just telling you what THEY said.
It’s called the mandela effect and it’s pretty common. We think it’s because how the human brain works, something regarding the exact mechanisms of memory and brain storage. It’s quite possible we remember things different and also possible the damage is a bit off because a particular mechanic is not being accurately dated to vanilla. What is notable is these level 30’s are mostly twinks with multiple days played at level 30 at this point with BiS gear in some cases.
Off or not, I am all for making it harder in dungeons. Keep the real world the same, buff the elites in dungeons and make that gear we get even more desireable.
Buff those stats to offset the increased knowledge and experience, which make the game easier.
Changing the stats on gear is a bad idea. We want the items as they were. Even having the items in their 1.10.0 buffed form from the beginning is too much.
High-Level Instance Changes
Along with the new Armor Sets, the high-level 5-10 man dungeons have received some changes regarding loot. Many items have been improved in quality and use. In addition, several epic items, such as Headmaster’s Charge and the Runeblade of Baron Rivendare, have had their drop rates significantly increased. In order to preserve the challenge of these dungeons, they have had their instance caps lowered. Stratholme, Scholomance, and Blackrock Depths now allow a maximum of five players inside, and Blackrock Spire allows a maximum of ten.
These changes didn’t take place until 3 months before Naxxramas was released.
This is what the stat changes looked like: https://i.imgur.com/XSWiaNp.png
We should not have access to these items for Onyxia, MC, BWL, ZG, and even the majority of AQ.
O I didnt mean buff the gear stats. I meant buff the elites so that the gear feels more amazing and earned Like yea, we beat these badass elites for this gear, we rock, o yea baby!
Rather than, ah we know all of this, we smoked this dungeon and got this nice gear. Go team.
Killing a dragon in an epic and close fight to get X sword is more fun than beating a baby for the same sword.
I’ve actually been looking forward to this quite excitedly. It’s going to be funny to watch the denial when people realize that they just sucked at games back when they were 12 years old, spamming nothing but Arcane Missiles and playing at 10 fps in their raid.
Wait did people think this was a bug? I did this all the damn time if my demon was out of position and something was patting close to it. Just tap a summon and it’s instantly gone, no worry for pulling an add.
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thousand of people think the earth is flat.
your ‘collective’ can be wrong.
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I explored the world a lot as a low level player. Ten levels elite didn’t mean instant death. They’d peel off before I died. There’s no hope of going toe to toe, but I could still flee with a good success rate. This was the case for me when I started in patch 1.3. This was the case for me when I fooled around in 1.12 waiting for TBC to come out.
It’s starting to sound like some people didn’t want the vanilla experience at all, rather just a mirror of the current homebrew server experience, which is purposely overtuned so as to keep the veterans happy.
I was a dev years ago for one. I won’t assume you know how hard our users fought for tiny, tiny changes. Mob difficulty, spell damage balance, even benign things such as a bump in respawn timers for mobs or nodes, or increasing the amount of stones from mining, or increasing the amount of cloth you get from humanoids, this, that, everything. We said no for most of it because we were certain that we were right based on the hard numbers we had, but if we didn’t overtune, we were going to lose the veterans to boredom. So, month by month, we turned it up. Especially as players got good during retail and came back to play with us.
It seems like that was a mistake in retrospect, but we had no idea that Classic would exist. We would have preserved it better if we knew.
It’s so bizarre seeing people then come back to Classic and asserting, without hard evidence, that the experience is wrong.
It’s partially our fault for skewing the experience in the first place. Pandora’s box is open. But we’re going to support all efforts to bring back 1.12 as it was. Not as we made it.
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So, your ranges are a tad off for a few reasons.
First, the way a block works (which only happened on the Beta client since he appears to be wielding his shield) is that it reduces the hit by an amount. The lowest hit taken was 59, since 9 damage was blocked. 59 + 9 = 68, so original hit is within the range.
Second, a melee critical is typically x2 damage. So, if you take it out (by reducing the damage to the original amount) you can treat the hit as a hit of 70, within the range of the other damage values.
Third, the combat log in the 1.12 client seems different. For every one of his Slams, it appears to take 3 lines of “logging” (one hit for X damage, one for “afflicted by Slam”, and one for “Slam fades from you”) while the Beta only had the “Slam hit you for X damage”. This does have the unfortunate side affect of giving us a smaller sample side of damage from the 1.12 client, since we seem to see as many lines of logging in both. Not sure how big of a deal that is, but I thought it worth mentioning.
With all that in mind, these are the ranges I get:
Beta Client:
64 - 82 (the lowest damage taken is a 59 hit where 9 was blocked, so the hit was actually 68)
1.12 Client:
65 - 80 (there was a 140 critical, but we can treat it as a 70 for our purposes)
Rng is Rng and these values/ranges appear close enough to me to consider this debunked.
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Having played from the original closed beta of vanilla wow, now through classic beta the numbers feel right to me. I’ve never ventured from the official content so the only context I have is from live products. Having just finished deadmines with a group of level seventeen players I can assure you it is just as hard as it was before. While mobs are the same, the players are not. We’re all now knowledgeable enough to know: a pat is coming, how to handle mobs, to let hunters pull, aggro range, how to properly gear. With all that we still managed to wipe once, compare that to a group of level 20s three levels higher, three more talent points, another class skill at twenty along with level eighteen and twenty skills makes a world of difference. Maybe those who cry out it isn’t hard enough have become so conditioned to level scaling.
In vanilla it was always possible for a well skilled player to do things that the average player couldn’t, farming the ooze in gnomer, the spiders in brd, even soloing bosses. I used to do the scarlet lumberjack aoe farm, where I succeeded other mages I’m my Guild would fail. The game isn’t easier you’re just more experienced, and you’re comparing a starting dungeon as an over leveled player to something like a zg or scholo where CC is required.
I’m enjoying my classic experience, players talk to each other, players help each other. For now it’s not just about gimmie my purples, it is about community.
Not really a corollary considering it’s based off of something observed and not “felt” or perceived as a NASA conspiracy.
release player here , i look how this version of classic run and elite are really under power this is ridicule , anyway in my book this is not the real vanilla version but a downgrade version of retail , just looking how the npc attack other faction this expose is retail and not vanilla also a lot of animation are wrong because this is from retail , but blizzard need a fast release for cash grab , i will play the game but for me is a wannabe version of classic wow + Layering bring a lot of issue , i dont expect all bug and issue will be fix in 3 month