If you have data then Im open to it. But you cannot just sit here and say ‘Yeah well i feel like its different’. Those streams are still accessible. Go grab them, take note of the damage dealt by those mobs and present us with some numbers. Those of us that like researching will literally help you find out if its accurate.
Instead, people are nagging at you because y’all claimed the boss damage was wrong, then when proven that it was right, you took your ball and went home instead of bringing more data and research.
If the mob damage is wrong, fine. Go get some screenshots, footage and lets put it all out there.
This is the beta after all. We have 3 months to prove the damage is wrong.
Are you serious??? You’re arguing that elite mobs in dungeons aren’t supposed to hit significantly harder than regular mobs? Did you even play WoW before Legion??
Yeah, because it’s outrageous to think that elite mobs in a dungeon are just normal mobs with more health! Not many elite mobs melee for the same amount as normal mobs! Just because Blizz is saying it doesn’t mean they’re right! They’ve been wrong PLENTY of times. Also, where did they say this? Because I can’t imagine Blizzard saying this.
I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. I accepted that they were right about the damage because I saw a plethora of evidence suggesting that I was wrong. What do you mean?
You’re right. Because I haven’t noticed that elites do more damage than normal mobs ever in the thousands of dungeons I’ve done over the last 14 years. It’s all based on feeling.
Man Classic is going to be the most hilarious GET WOKE GO BROKE situation in history. Time to learn vanilla was only hard because you sucked at video games in 2005.
This is rather enjoyable to read because I’ve said from the start that what people remembered and felt and what actually was going on would be two different things.
There are lots of variables as to why things feel different than they did in the past. One is that we are playing on far better computers and connections than we were back then. The second is that we actually know what we are doing now. The third is that you probably have lots of players that leveled early in the games life which was much more buggy and the classes themselves weren’t as powerful.
You are seeing players that know how to gear correctly, they are picking the correct quest rewards, the correct talents, they know the correct abilities to use, and this is across the entire group. Think about doing these places with 5 good guildies back in the day vs 5 random noobs, even then that made a huge difference. Then you compound it with the experience you have gained over the years and I fully expect it to feel much easier.
As far as elites go, it is entirely possible there is some odd bug in the way damage is working, but I can also tell you that some of those elites didn’t really hit all that hard and it wasn’t odd to find normal mobs that were harder to kill than elites. The Defias Pillagers definitely come to mind there.
I suspect Blizzard will be doing some looking into it, if they bothered to check the boss damage then they will bother to check other things as well. However, if you are expecting the same exact feel that you had then it’s not going to happen, especially if you leveled very early in the games life.
Heck even if they went back and started from the beginning and rolled through it would feel very different, because you still will know much more about what you were doing than back then.
People forget that even though vanilla was “hard” by today’s WoW standards, at the time it was significantly easier than it’s existing competition.
Also, a lot of the “difficulty” was caused by things other than raw damage numbers… like a murloc with low hp running and bring an entire camp down on you.
These people need to realize that games don’t have to be “hard” to be fun.
If they don’t want to play the authentic (Yes, 1.12 is authentic Vanilla) Classic, then they don’t have to. More room for those of us that are going to enjoy it.
The thing that worries me is the Elite that blizzard tested on was one i already thought was actually done correctly. meanwhile i’m watching a warrior tank a dungeon he is too low for with broken armor and he is barely taking damage. It honestly looks like some elites are not getting their elite damage bonus. Could just be weak mobs though. idk.
Yeah I was just looking at some damage numbers, there’s defias mobs in deadmines that hit harder than that first boss according to 2006 data. Hopefully a test team that cares will look at it and work with Blizzard. A lot of the testers just want to get to max level and pvp. They don’t care about accurate recreation of low level instances. Close enough is good enough to them.
I think memories of getting “hit hard” are accurate. It comes down to accuracy of perception even more than it does accuracy of memory. It’s not like everyone posting here is in a retirement home and has some level of dementia. Their memories are accurate. They experienced ‘more’ difficulty in WoW Vanilla.
I look at my own experiences and can examine how perception affected how I remember dungeons.
On about day 4 of my subscription in Sept. 2006, days before 1.12 went live, I ran Stockades with my guild. (Sorry my account history only goes back to 2010 now, it used to go back to the gifted trial version and have exact date.) I recall mobs running away as they went low damage and pulling whole rooms as a result. I remember fearing them and the result was the same. I remember curse of recklessnessing them so they wouldn’t run, but that increased their damage output on tank. I remember getting kicked, or gouged, or stunned by some of them. I remember my guild wiping a bunch.
Basically, on day 4, my mind didn’t know what was important details to focus on to lower the challenge of the encounter. I also didn’t have game knowledge of my class’s abilities nor my parties, nor the enemies. I wasn’t able to perceive properly what was really going on basically. Stockades was just a messy disaster! (And the loot stunk!)
Forward to late spring 2007, I’m a healer for a group of mostly new players. We’re running dungeon after dungeon as we level. Everything has slowed down for me. I know the pulls. I know what my teammates could be capable of, and can better assess what level they are actually performing at. I can keep myself and the tank alive, and at least one dps. It’s slow going because the 3 dps are week ones/twos and are freaking out! They can’t really focus on what simple button and mouse clicks they need to do to get thru the situation. Their perception is off, and mine is much clearer. The pulls aren’t racing to me, everything is smooth. To them though they are out of control and bouncing off the walls and dying. (haha)
To them, their minds are going over and over the calculation to try to figure out one button press from the next. Whereas I know what to do, to them each GCD is ten seconds long in thought or something.
It’s sort of like when a crime or accident takes place. People will say everything slowed down, and they may describe noticing tons of details but most aren’t really important. Experienced investigators work to find what’s important from what’s irrelevant. And if an investigator finds themselves in similar situation, they know what to look for. They can focus and be in control. They can be a better witness than average person.
When WoW Classic was announced I wanted it to be harder precisely for this reason. We know so much, and we can be in higher degree of control, second by second. A lot of thrill is gone. Like a rollercoaster that’s been ridden a dozen times.
I respect though that recreating it same challenge level will offer the great successful experience to new players. So I get why it shouldn’t be ramped up. But I hope Blizzard and some testers work on getting what challenge there was in 1.12 accurate. It was just so incredible.
While the same feel would be nice, the minute they announced 1.12 i knew it wouldnt happen. Not even close. But what we are seeing is a whole lot of dare i say … retail like chain pulling with 0 down time. Im not expecting 1.1 but dang.
We talked about this yesterday. Players, their internet, their hardware, and their access to information all have improved. The content is going to be faceroll easy, and people are going to taunt this forum about it non-stop. Go ahead and accept it.
You can’t turn back the clock to 2006. Classic is going to be a leveling game, because the patience required to savor the journey will still be there. But if you want difficulty in instances, retail is over there.
The instance was designed for 5. Of course it is easier when you have double or more the expected DPS. They eventually prevented you from raiding them to make them provide the intended challenge.