1/2 of us believe there are some inconsistencies with elite mob damage (non-boss) because we remember not being able to chain pull a bunch of mobs (until like WotLK as far as I can recall). And then there are a great deal of people looking at Blizzard’s evidence that Rhahk’zor deals the right amount of damage, and they get on their high horse.
Yes, He does the right damage. Nobody is disputing that. We’re talking about all the “trash mobs” which were a handful. You couldn’t just pull a shehtload of mobs in vanilla. I don’t remember really being able to do that until WotLK unless you had a bunch of gear. But WotLK had the heirlooms.
I’m not saying that Blizzard is wrong about everything. I’ve happily admitted that I was wrong about the boss damage numbers. But I remain concerned for what I have been witnessing on streamer’s dungeon runs.
Lastly, the people taking a huge, steamy dump on all the people who “remember” the game being harder are doing the same thing they’re accusing others of. They have their OWN memory and they think that THEY’RE right because THEY think the game was easier. So THEY must be right. How many of them, I wonder, actually played prior to WotLK. And why does is it okay for you to be so condescending to other details of memory because yours are different? Why are you right and everyone else is wrong?
The difficulty of the vanilla raids was in the fact everything was new, people were still experimenting, there were very few addons with a tiny amount of the power we take for granted now, individual characters were far weaker, and Blizzard themselves weren’t sure how to balance everything.
Raid mechanics were simplistic. That much is a fact. And saying, “it was difficult at the time” doesn’t mean it’s difficult now. If we change the difficulty to reflect the current average of player skill it’s not going to be vanilla. The entire point of Classic is to recreate it as it was in 1.12 as authentic as possible. Fudging with numbers to make it harder isn’t authentic.
I remember using fear as a survival mechanic (priest), which brought back more mob most of the time… and managing it.
I remember slogging through maraudon or uldaman with shaman and hunter tank cause we couldn’t find a warrior.
I remember surviving massive pull in BRD.
heck. zul’farrak and the 100 troll rushing at you is proof people could handle 2-3 elite + a dozen of regular mob attacking you at the same time with very little to no break in between waves.
and I remember doing that as a keyboard-turning clicker with standard UI and who tought I had to SW:pain every mob as a healer…I tougth wand spec was awful and never put a point into disc until I grabbed every single talent in the shadow tree…
maybe you remember stuff being hard because you ran with warrior who didn’t realize sunder was OP threat, healers who didn’t knew how to downrank their spell, DPS’Er deadly afraid of outaggroing ( made even worse by the tank being awful) so stuff lived twice as long as it should of?
I am not sure what nerfs you are referring to, I just skimmed through all of the documented WoW patches and didn’t see anything from 1.1 to 1.12 that nerfed dungeons outside of some changes to facilitate some of the level cap dungeons no longer being raidable.
What’s more, Deadmines saw NO targeted nerfs throughout Classic’s patch cycle, from 1.1 to 1.12 (literally no mention of it specifically in the patch notes).
Mind you, I just skimmed through the notes quickly as I don’t have the time or patience to meticulously scan through pages of patch notes just to prove someone wrong on the internet, but I am inclined to think you may just be misremembering how hard stuff was in 2004.
I distinctly remember having a LAN party at my house back in the classic days where me (mage) and my friends (paladin and hunter) spent an entire day (and I mean straight up ~24 hours) farming full clears of Zul’farrak with just the three of us from the moment the we could enter the dungeon until all mobs were green or grey, so Classic dungeons weren’t exactly tuned to be particularly difficult, even that far in leveling process.
Not like the facts matter to people, they’ll just keep moving those goalposts. They’ll want Blizzard to come out with the math and screenshots of every mob in every dungeon until there’s nothing left to test.
And then they’ll find some other excuse for why Blizzard is wrong.
Galdor, seriously lighten up. If the Stoneskin mitigation bug existed, then it’s pretty likely that other mitigation bugs could exist too. Posters like myself and others have been specifically saying that dungeon mob melee damage is weird. This isn’t about an anti-blizzard agenda, it’s just common sense observations of people testing the game we love right now.
Boss damage, and spell damage across the board, seem to be pretty reasonable for most fights I’ve seen. The final boss in the easiest wing of SM was doing pretty heavy fire spell damage.
You’re not paying attention to what I’m linking at all. If there’s one-off cases of mitigation being wrong in the dungeons, okay, they’ll be found and the evidence will be posted like the Stoneskin totem bug.
What you’re talking about are videos of streamers blasting through dungeons, I’m linking you the evidence showing that those numbers in those runs are correct and you’re ignoring it.
Common sense observation. Okay. Just like the Rhak’zor example that was debunked by Kaivax.
So common sense that it was completely untrue. What?
You’re repeating the one boss example which I have agreed to (as have others everywhere and in the streams I’m watching), and ignoring the Druid streams I keep posting of him tanking mobs?
I already watched the videos you referenced, and don’t see how it addresses what I’m talking about here.
It’s very likely that their numbers are correct, and just some buffs/debuffs have a bug affecting mitigation, so it appears in some places and not in others.
And here the streamer fights a 29 non-elite mob outside the dungeon, which hits him for similar damage as the elite mobs inside dungeon (he tests this with and without Demo debuff in dungeon): https://youtu.be/w0R63ZanCLg?t=4097
Is it a controversial statement to say that elite mobs are supposed to have buffed HP and melee damage?
Overlord Ramtusk hitting a Paladin tank for 37 or so damage and then hitting the DPS warrior with a shield on for 40-100 or so?
That’s a boss VS the mobs you’re talking about hitting for 50 or so with Sunder armor up. This is an extremely easy math problem but I don’t know the armor formula off the top of my head. Before the Druid in the video gets sunder stacks he’s getting hit for something like 32-40 damage a hit. Going from 40-50 damage is a 25% increase in damage taken.
The numbers look fine to me, this isn’t a common sense issue. This is an issue with memory and bias and it’s not coming from me.
Hunters could easily solo a lot of dungeons in classic. I ran a crap load of solo stealth runs on my rogue in classic too. Soloing at level bosses was pretty simple for a few classes.
Watched that video a bit more. The streamer says “Elite mobs do not melee for the same amount as normal mobs. No one is ever gonna sell me on that. I don’t care how many times or who it comes from”
This is the attitude I’m talking about. It doesn’t even matter to this guy if Blizzard says the damage numbers are correct.
You can see the damage from Overlord Ramtusk in that video, right? Do you think the Elite mobs in the video you linked should be doing more damage than the boss?
I’m not trying to be a jerk, I’m trying to get you to see the logic here.