On the subject of mob damage in BFD, Look at this first pull: he gets 3 elite crabs, and 3 elite turtles. Look at the damage they do.
https://youtu.be/s1aXf_JHRso?t=15372
Look at the following pull of mostly non-elite mobs (in huge numbers), plus water elementals: https://youtu.be/s1aXf_JHRso?t=15533
There doesn’t seem to be much of a difference between the elite and non-elite mob damage here. The elite mobs appear to be normal mobs with elite health pools.
I genuinely don’t see how this is Vanilla, or TBC, or pserver Vanilla behavior. Surely there must be a bug with calculating mitigation that is affecting some (not all) mob damage. All of the boss damage I’ve seen (in this stream and elsewhere) has been reasonable.
If I am wrong I will admit it. I just want to find what is right here.
Note: these mobs are at level, or 2-3 levels higher. The elite turtles leading up to the boss are 27, and the tank is 25. They are also using curse of reck, and demo roar, on the mobs.
The average is the same but the range is different:
66 - 80
59 - 82
How does crit factor into this?
I’m no expert on the ranges of damage and I’m not even testing (lol) but if there is a deeper problem and stems from range, it could be originally vanilla had wider ranges that could have peaks and valleys of damage that were more threatening than something more consistent and small.
Players are usually wrong about how something is not quite right but they’re usually perceptive that something is off though. Whatever it is, it’ll be more apparent at higher levels.
I soloed Vicious Fallout at level 29 about 12 times 15 years ago before he dropped my dagger. Hell, go check the comments on the classic wowhead site from Thottbott and Allakhazam.
Its accurate, we did solo him. And no one who matters cares about what data someone wishes it was. We want and have ALWAYS WANTED accuracy. I want the game as I played it back then. If this is accurate, then its what I want. If you want some modified ‘funserver’ that’s literally what private servers are for. I don’t get the complaints here.
It has pretty much always been astonishing what people can solo. I don’t think that’s a good benchmark for comparison (unless we’re talking about the average player in average gear).
Good frost mages can AOE farm parts of BRD. A good paladin/hunter/warlocl can do an incredible 1v1 solo of an elite.
There is just one question I have, please think about it:
It it even remotely possible, that the 1.12.1 deference server you are using is not real 1.12.1 but instead comes from a time when the original WoW team already started working on integrating changes in damage for 2.0 into it?
From what I remember, CC in dungeons was partly about reducing damage, but also about controlling runners. If you tried to AoE a pack down and they all fled at the same time, you could very easily end up with two or three (or more) extra packs and a patrol or two, especially in places like Scarlet Monastery.
Don’t even have to be that good. I was terrible in Vanilla. I mean I didn’t click, but I also didn’t bother reassigning my hotkeys and had pretty much no ability to micro my demons because of it.
This is the dark side of #nochanges. We’re going to have to come to terms with the fact that Deadmines will never be hard again. Other lamenters can join my support group.
(I’m still on board with the idea that 1.12 talents are making a bigger impact than expected and are strongly contributing to the perceived difference. It is what it is though.)
(I’m still on board with the idea that 1.12 talents are making a bigger impact than expected and are strongly contributing to the perceived difference. It is what it is though.)
you do realize at lvl 20 you barely have any talent at all?
Fair point. Should have said talents and spells, both of which underwent a fair amount of change from 1.1-1.12 from what I recall.
Honestly I’m thinking more about threat generation and player damage output when I bring that up (this is what felt more out of line when watching), not Elite mob damage being discussed in this thread.
So first of all classicdb does not use vanilla numbers, obviously, it’s basically private server data. Then for Defias Overseer at least I can say that the “brady games official bestiary” from 2008 has 43-59 listed as damage. (277-369 for verdan the everlasting and 119-158 for rhahk’zor, for comparisons sake)
Private server low level dungeon melee dmg just seems overtuned.
Edit: On the other hand e.g. Dagran in BRD has MORE dmg in the bestiary than on classicdb and is consistent with the pserver DBs I have, even slightly higher, so I’d wager higher level dungeons won’t be “easier than they were”.
What’s the 1.12 reference environment? How is it any different than your current Classic Beta build? Both could have drawn on same incorrect data or formulas.
The toolbars do not look like original toolbars from 1.12.
Did you test it versus other classes? Other armors? Did you try it versus no armor?
I don’t know if damage is any different for this mob or any other between Vanilla and current Classic Beta build. But I don’t understand how this is proof as long as ‘1.12 reference environment’ is undefined.
There’s also a high potential that the recreated warrior has other attributes attached to it that could effect all of it’s interactions with the game world. A “Test Character” may not be the same as a “Live Character” created under traditional means.
These images prove NOTHING, except that so many forum users will drink the blue koolaid no matter what.
Threat is because tank now know sunder > everything threat-wise.
DPS is because people aren’t dead scared of pulling threat like back in the day…
yeah, rogue can totally tank an elite for the 10-15 sec it take to burn it down.