Elf fans. Do you still want High Elves?

Community General Discussion
4225

the issue is, given blizzard’s track record vs. alliance, the chances alliance would end up with fewer paladins than horde, are high (because they can readily come up with a retcon for forsaken paladins with virtually no pushback from alliance) once all the paladins are distributed, and velfs end up with no pallies (because much pushback from horde). if this happens, the only way alliance will be able to regain their status as the founders of paladin class is to have a way to make velfs into helfs, and for that to happen they have to be de-voided or just given the option to be helf once they enter the rift, since helfs are wandering the rift at this moment

all the other races, on both sides, have no lore excuse to deny them paladin, so worgen, kultiran, night elf, nightborne, even dark iron, mechagnomes and vulpera, etc, could be paladins because nothings really holding them back. only forsaken and void elves seem to have a lore barrier. now i am perfectly fine with forsaken paladins but you are not okay with void elf paladins, because lore.

3 Likes
4226

There is so much conjecture here it defies reason.

First and foremost, there are no plans as far as I’m aware to make forsaken paladins and rest assured I’d be amongst the first to oppose such a move for the same reasons that I’d oppose Velf paladins.

Second who started with what is a moot point. Like it was ground breaking in 2007 when the factions got access to each other’s unique classes, but it’s been 16 years and from where I’m standing it’s pretty homogenized at this point.

Third: you aren’t getting helves, because as I’ve pointed out there isn’t anything they bring to the alliance that wasn’t already there.

I’d argue that there are a fair few races for whom certain classes just doesn’t really fit with the identity of the race; the Draenei and night elves for example have deep cultural reasons for not being warlocks and if you were to just handwave that away because “player choice” you’d be doing a huge disservice to the distinction of both player races and classes in general.

And again: I’d oppose Forsaken paladins for the same reasons that I opposed Void elf paladins.

4 Likes
4227

I have always been supportive of this race/class combo, still bugs me even today that it’s not a thing and not been a thing since end of Legion because that’s when I expected it to become a thing.

3 Likes
4228

thats kinda my point, alliance players would have little to say about forsaken paladins but horde players would have alot to say about void elf paladins, 1) because horde has many more players than alliance, so louder voice and 2) the amount of forsaken players and paladin fans on horde who want forsaken paladins, would overwhelm the few horde players who dont want forsaken paladins. how ya gonna convince them not to want the option when so many other races are getting them? yeah

3 Likes
4229

not exactly. the magic type isnt the issue now as all forms of magic are just different expressions of the same thought. rather what you do with it, is the issue.

3 Likes
4230

I’m not quite sure I understand.

Forsaken Paladins aren’t against the lore, there are quite a handful that already exist. And it’s canon lore that Forsaken can and do use the Light. Their priesthood preaches and teaches about the balanced utilization of both and that’s been in-game since Vanilla.

Void Elf Paladins are really the only one where conflict makes the most sense. Void Elves simply can’t use the Light. That is why most advocates of Void Elf Paladins propose that they use the Void instead. Paladins using alternative forces has been shown quite a bit throughout the expansions. There are also already potential Void Paladins within the ranks of the Void Elf (Paladin/Warrior looking NPCs that use Mana) and also Twilight’s Hammer Paladins which canonically use the Void rather than the Light.

3 Likes
4231

No matter how much you say this, Blood Elf players don’t understand it.

3 Likes
4232

The actual player balance is going to be moot in about 4 days since CFGs are going to go live and the distinction between horde and alliance for players is going to be moved towards the back of the writing bus.

Second, if appeasing the horde player base was a primary goal of Blizzard then they failed. Badly. Because nothing about BFA, legion or shadowlands felt good as a horde player since we were basically stuck in a stupid echoed narrative plot with sylvanas with the only difference being she got a redemption arc that nobody actually wanted on either side of the faction divide.

Frankly, if Forsaken get paladins it isn’t going to be because of demands from the players it will be because blizzard made a decision because “reasons”.

4 Likes
4233

as far as day to day play, yes, but race requests/class requests, will fall along factional lines for some time, perhaps for the rest of the game.

1 Like
4234

To me Lore, just making Velf paladins would be both lazy and poor world building.

Something that would be a much better option IMO (and working with their Void theme) would be a melee class that incorporates the void’s mutagenic properties into it’s being, allowing the class to rapidly adapt to whatever situation it is in while maintaining the utterly alien nature of the Void. Heck, you could make it the signature of a new expansion like the various hero classes of the past.

6 Likes
4235

I’m in support of an all new class, although if it were up to me I’d prefer a new class that took Discipline Priests to the extreme. A hybrid class with all 3 roles (Tank, Healer, DPS) that used Light and Void interchangeably. They wouldn’t break the lore because they wouldn’t be using both simultaneously, they’d shift back and forth akin to a Naaru. One of their primary mechanics would be a reintroduction of what Balance Druids used to have, where they would shift affinity between Solar and Lunar phases. However, when it comes to this class concept, they’d switch between Light and Void. When in the Light phase of their cycle, they’d be more supportive/offensive, and when in the Void phase of their cycle, they’d be more offensive.

2 Likes
4236

cool idea. :+1:

1 Like
4237

If that was the case, they would have been throaway NPCs like that one druid during Wrath that was considering searching for “another way” (which some have interpreted to be the origin of sunwalkers). They were instead a not-insignificant part of the paladin class hall story. Legion should have been the starting point for Night Elf paladins, which is why I was surprised to see they didn’t become playable during BFA. Blizzard even made Zandalari paladins playable after the race was introduced (upon release Zandalari did not have access to the paladin class), so it makes little sense that they didn’t do the same for Night Elves.

3 Likes
4238

Jw, why do you feel that Emet needs to articulate a unique niche for high elves? We have had very few races that fulfill a unique niche over the last several years.

LF draenei don’t fill any role that regular draenei didn’t already. Same with HM tauren/tauren, gnomes/mechagnomes, nightborne/blood elves, and KT humans/humans that eat less. All of these things fill the same role and only provide superficial customizations or minor differences in class availability. I don’t get why High Elves should have this requirement when none of the other races do.

Even still, they do have several unique niches. They’ve been explained (and ignored) a hundred times in every high elf thread. It’s not like alliance high elves aren’t already a part of the game; we just want them to be playable.

8 Likes
4239

It’s ok for player characters to be the exception to the norm. Each faction is a bit of a melting pot where different races have been working together for a while. There’s going to be some mixing of cultures and some softening of the divisions between each individual culture over the years. A character of one race can get a desire to learn from other cultures and choose a class that’s not typical of their race. I’m glad that we’re moving in the direction of opening up more race/class combos. For night elf paladins, even if the number is small, Delas Moonfang proves that night elf paladins are possible.

1 Like
4240

Very well said. Though I’m afraid that you aren’t changing her mind. She’s dead set on hating High Elves and those who want High Elves.

4 Likes
4241

There are several different types of High Elves even if there’s (basically) just one race of High Elves

The problem here is that Dark Rangers and Wildhammer dwarves also exist as desired races, and they do exist at this point for the rolepkay purposes these races would have

And the same thing goes for High Elves
Sorry but no, there’s no need for a dedicated high elf race to exist at this point and there hasn’t existed a need or even a real purpose of it since, IIRC, late BFA due to the customization options that do exist

2 Likes
4242
2 Likes
4243

I’ve noticed something while playing the game to unlock both Void Elves and Nightborne with a Night Elf and a Blood Elf.

Sunwell
Moonwell
Nightwell
Arcan’Dor Tree

And Trolls…are ancestors of them all (If I read that part of the story right)

Sunwell got icky, Naaru had to X.X to fix it. Naaru = something created by someone to house energy within it.

So all the Wells, Naaru, etc, are drawing power, from a power source, that is drawing power from a power source.
And with or without that power, or combinations of them, the species changes, powers change. But it’s still, Heal, Buff, Debuff, Damage, Protect, Corrupt, etc.

So a Paladin is linked with the Sunwell battery pack right? But what about all the elf variants who use other wells, they still practice all those types of power variations, so they do have paladins, they just aren’t called Paladins. They’d be called, within their society, something that connects them to their respective Well-Types (moon sun etc)

So what exactly is the problem, with depicting this ingame. Either through glyphs, class-vfx changes (like warlocks legion tome turning fire green), or other methods, maybe Sub-Class options after unlocking something basic so a Void Elf Paladin would just use a Void Well or some Ethereum gadget wihle a Nightborne would use Arcan’dor or Nightwell Magic of some kind for their abilities instead of a Naaru Battery.

Even in mythology and right now, every living being has the same potential and access to power supplies, but we each do something different with it.
So why can’t a Blood Elf choose to use Fireballs and Ice but work with Ancestors (Shaman) isntead of just Mage. It’s still a Fireball/Elemental. All Blood Elves can’t possibly have signed some oath to never use Lava Magic or Ancestral anything, right? So where are the blood elf/nightborne shaman?

Even in the image/art that shows Light/Void/Elemental spheres etc and how they coincide, it shows, them, coinciding and creating hybrid magic types.
Meaning, even a mechagnome with access to conjure/draw flame, should be able to use that flame element which also has lava in it.
Druids learning how to shapeshift, would have mastery to shift any form, not just elf , tauren, etc. The practice is universal, not limited to certain body types, right?

So in theory, druids should also have the ability to mimic any other animals form somehow, to some extent, simply by seeing it. Their own muscles/knowledge remains, so why wouldn’t they be able to shapeshift into a Turtle or a Duck or something?

You see how far we can debate this? All to say Yes or no to a race/class combo.

:sleepy:

4244

make void paladins instead then. like they can say that they were paladins before they went blue then their power got corrupted and that happened. if you really wanna story, they can feed anything because the story is poo anyways these days. but thats just me, i care more about gameplay than gatekeeping an entire race because reasons.
do away with the korean class locked stuff already please. give us void pallys!

1 Like