It doesn’t matter. This argument is similar to the argument of:
- “What do DKs prevent?”
- “What does X-Retail feature prevent?”
- “What does T-Mog prevent?”
- “What would adding vulpera prevent?”
- etc…
That’s not a reason to implement something.
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Removing the respec cost would be a reasonable middle ground.
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I mean, I’m not personally “against” changes like dual spec, or removing the respec fee. I just also don’t see it as problematic either way.
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Not having dual spec definitely has negative impact. And since it’s a change that would be great for those who would use it with no real negative impact on those who choose not to there’s no reason not to add it.
LK rode the wave of popularity that was started by Vanilla and TBC. It started with record subscription numbers, then they plateaued and led to the first massive drop off in player engagement toward the end. NR was just as tedious as TBC, it just had slightly more space for you to explore. Classic LK won’t be any different than Classic TBC is now. The world will feel even more empty due to the the fact that you won’t even have attunements to keep you from just raid logging after you hit the level cap.
I mean, I can understand that some people want it, but that doesn’t mean it has negative impact. It would be very difficult to show that the lack of a future feature negatively impacts the current Classic release, I think.
I mean, this is the exact same argument as noted above:
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Apparently it is Because that’s arguing you are making Your whole justification for not having dual speck in the game.
On top of that it really depends on the feature And there’s a big difference between duel speck.
And something like transmug or achievements Or a new class You’re taking a hill and turning it into a mountain at that point.
I want dual speck in the game because it would make players lives better it’s a quality of life.
equality of life that offers choice and freedom reasonable choice in freedom on top of that.
It’s not something broken like world buffs It’s fine Is that’s how I feel about every single change does this make the game better or worse if it makes gain better there’s no reason not to have it in.
I mean, I suppose it’s just this: Dual spec isn’t a TBC feature, and it’s not currently in the game. It’s not preventing anyone from doing anything anyway, so I don’t personally have any issue with a WotLK feature not being in TBC.
While I can understand that you want it enough to argue that it’s in everybody’s best interest and/or the best interest of the game as a whole, I’m not convinced that a case has been made that really shows that to be true.
If Blizzard decides to implement dual spec, then cool. If not, also cool. I’m still going to be farming several gear sets and respecc’ing when I want to play different roles or parts of the game in a different talent build.
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No it’s not a number of people have explained exactly why dual spec leads to them playing less and often not playing badly needed roles like tank/healer. That is ultimately bad for the game.
Only for people incapable of doing an individual analysis of a specific thing and can only lump all changes together as equal.
People say a lot of things, but that doesn’t always (nor particularly often) line up with the data.
It has nothing to do with “individual analysis” or whatever jargon you’d like to hand wave around.
Basically what you’re saying is some people are complaining that they don’t have gold to respec but that somehow dual spec would magically solve their problems.
We will see how it plays out in WotLK. That, if nothing else, gives us something about the next Classic expansion to look forward to.
No what they’ve said is that dual spec would address some of their very specific problems in very specific ways. The way dual spec works is quite well understood, it’s not magic.
So you literally don’t understand the difference between different changes?
So basically you don’t care either way Fair enough Only thing I would say is The game is not in a good position.
I mean come on will you literally have servers that have less than a 100 people on them.
And yes I checked iron forge I can confirm this and not just 1 or 2 try 7 to 8 And here’s the other thing.
Does encourage like it or not in no matter how much people like to say this isn’t true Is the idea of people trying different content it would increase PVP participation which we do know as at an all time low.
Would it solve the taking shortage no but it would certainly help That’s the biggest reason I say it’s necessary.
Now would it help quality of life or people oh absolutely but the reason Why it’s needed Like it or not we have a lot lower population it’s still higher than the end of face 5 in classic.
But it’s still significantly lower I mean whenever I watch a World of Warcraft Podcast or anything and whenever 8 sometimes I’ll make all its on different servers just to check the number one thing I hear.
Is people are having trouble keeping a consistent roster or We can’t find enough people to fill our raids all the time.
Or this person is inspect for this or that Is at least to a certain degree having dull speck in the game would help with this.
And it certainly would help people pvp a lot more as well People are more apt to try something if they don’t have to go through a whole bunch of well hurdles to do.
Having to get a secondary gear set for something that’s I don’t mind that it’s a pain but I’ll do it but I also have to give you a 100 gold every single time you want to try something new.
That’s too much And not to be too much with this point but you don’t have to look any further than retail and covenants and Conduit energy.
One of the reasons why blizzard said they Were removing it Because they said most people Unless they were the hardcore of the hardcore either one didn’t switch covenants.
Unless they absolutely felt they had to And this is awesome true with condolence They picked the one they would get the most use out of so they wouldn’t have to switch because it was such a pain in the butt to do.
Not the exact same thing but it’s very similar But it does prove my point if something’s too much of a pain the butt people are not even going to bother to try.
They are going to do the parts of the game they find fun and ignore the rest That’s just the truth
I mean, my main point really is more that if you say something like, “I’d like to have dual spec.” Then cool! Yeah, it might be fun.
But if you say, “I want dual spec because it’s better for the game.” or “it will solve problems.” That’s where I question it.
Sure, but at the same time, how much are you spending on gems and enchants for new gear? It’s all relative, I suppose. If you can afford to play multiple roles, with multiple gearsets, and are able to schedule what you want to do, you can manage.
For example, you might have a healing raid spec with a gear setup, a Heroic tanking spec with gear setup, and a DPS PVP spec with gear setup. If you’re trying to heal raids, tank heroics, and DPS in PVP multiple times a day, it’s going to get expensive.
If you stick to your raid spec 2 days a week, swap over to your PVP spec for another 2 days, then farm heroics for the remaining 3 days, you’re only spending around 150g/week on respecs. Not too bad, imo.
Of course the argument, “But I want to do what I want when I want, and I don’t want to have to play the game the way it is designed to do so.” can be used. And at the same time some people could say, “That design is what I like about TBC.” And I think they’d have a good point.
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Well 1st off I would make an argument how many times are you going to get a gear set.
For your off set and how long does it take for you to get that together Because here is the thing over all.
That 100 gold every week is going to add up to be way more than anything you’re going to spend.
At least averagely On your Off spec And yes there’s a lot of variables with this like who do you know do you know an enchanter you have an old enchanter those are all things to take into account too.
I mean if I were to do the math and say I’m building a healing set just for the sake of argument which for the record I am Now I know by default.
The easiest pieces for me to get are the PVP ones from all the vendors Then you have the exalted mace from shatar and the book from lower city And the ring from honorhold.
So we’ll say On average just because I don’t want to do all that math in my head Will averagedly Without raid gear Anything you get from off drops from your raid because that’s different.
A 1000 gold But you only have to spend that a 1000 gold 1 time Right More or less when you take into account how many times you have to respect that’s a 100 gold every single time.
And yes there are some numbers to be thrown in like you say well how often are you actually going to get a piece that needs an enchant.
Who has what enchanted what’s actually best in slot these are all things we’ve take an account too but overall.
It’s exactly like dual speck because the cost up front is going to be big but after that it’s going to be a lot cheaper overall.
More or less the respect is always going to be at least a A 100 gold every single time On top of that there’s other variables in that.
To build that gear set that respecting doesn’t have the same thing to apply to it right.
For example say one of your friends happens to have a really good BOE That you can use for your offset well Hey I just saved myself money.
Do you know a jewelry crafter do you happen to be a geographer with the pattern you need for your off spek.
None of those things apply to respect I’m sure you could make the argument well your friend could help you get into dungeon groups to help you get gold.
But then again that’s also A5050 chance because if it’s heroics well if that group is bad and that cost you money not makes you money.
See what I mean so the idea that how much gold you would spend on your gear said that can be discounted through other things the respect can’t.
In fact I would say it’s exactly like buying dual spec initially you pay a 1000 gold up front but it saves you a ton of money in the long run.
So that’s what I would say to that As far as it not being part of the developers original design we’ve kind of already gone past that.
I mean the leather working changes Is Joel crafting and enchanting changes same faction battlegrounds that’s where we’re kind of past that no granted we’re all those better for the game yes.
But it doesn’t mean it was part of the original design either the game needs to adapt with the player base.
It’s just that simple on something like this
It depends. If you have upgrades from instances/raids you run, then it could be multiple pieces a day/week.
That’s assuming a 1000g cost for dual spec, which might not be a good cost for the TBC Classic population. Perhaps 10,000g is more correct to reflect the average playtime and sweatiness of current players (maybe not. I don’t know what makes sense).
Would people still prefer dual spec over reduced respec fees if it costs 10,000g? That is an interesting question, imo.
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OK there is no way it should be more than epic flying I would compromise and say Is 4000 That way not everybody can get it right away.
But it would give people something to work towards 10000 is way too much that’s ridiculous Is not everybody buys gold or is Is a super efficient farmer.
So painfully obvious which people on here have not played p.servers.
there is no valid argument against Dual Spec, unlike many things which HAVE been changed ie level boosts, drum nerf, pala homogenization, arena system, layering, and basically allowing botting.
Dual spec solves so many issues plaguing tbcc. For example near-zero arena participation, despite the entire NA region being linked on one battlegroup.
I played on a private vanilla server with easy respeccing and I didn’t like what it did to the meta. Would rather not see that in what is supposed to be a faithful recreation of the original TBC.
Other changes they’ve made have been here and there, some fine, some to-this-date still terrible (level boost and arena rating changed), but dual spec would be a step too far.
Dual spec doesn’t solve arena participation. The reason people don’t arena is because PvP is not as popular, simple as that. It was the same thing back in real TBC when people argued the exact same thing and Blizzard smacked it down saying that the number of people who want dual spec for arena respecs is vanishingly small.
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20-30% of guilds is A LOT of players, especially if you’re considering that spots in the top 20-30% of guilds are some of the most popular and sought after spots in the raiding community on any given server. Most players raid end game content, so changing the meta is going to affect way more players than you think.
Just remove the respec cost or restrict dual spec swapping to major cities (IF, SW, Darn, Exodar, Silvermoon, Org, TB, UC, maybe even shatt) and lets be done with it.
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As in the people that are really pushing those people that kis people that can clear ssc and tk Is in an hour Is that level of player Those are the kids this is really going to affect I sait’s a fact I said top 20 to 30% top Not average.
Not above average top Is the people that set the bar for all the other guilds to follow that’s the players I’m talking about here Not the ones that ask It’s OK how are we going to do this it’s OK how can we improve this by 5 more seconds.
How can we shave off this kill another 2 or 3 seconds or something like that those are the type of players I’m talking about not the ones that are progressing.
Those type of players That’s why I said top So no it’s not going to effect as much people as you think.