Dual Spec solves Tank shortage

The flip side of this advantage is the need to concentrate multiple roles worth of gear on the same person and the highly limited usefulness of doing so. In all my years of raiding, I had exactly one opportunity to flip to a secondary spec to handle a unique problem and that was on Yogg-0 10man. We only needed one Tank and I had just enough viable caster gear to make going Balance worth while, especially since the fight favored DoTs and Casters so much.

Outside of my solitary personal example, the only time I saw people swapping specs was Healers going DPS or vice versa for specific fights, and typically it was the same person flip-flopping, and typically we only cut down on Healers on farmed bosses with no real punishment.

In TBC we’d see DPS swapping between Tank and DPS as needed, given the wide disparities between Tank needs in 25m bosses, but honestly that only impacts a remote few encounters that aren’t even the crux of the matter anyway.

I get that dual spec adds better fluidity in adapting a perfect comp to the raid, but that comes with a lot more preparation and overhead and frankly any guild willing to plan out that far is already the kind of crazy zealous guild that most of us don’t run with.

The positive side of all of this is the fact that casual guilds who are more likely to have random no-shows, people AFK mid raid, etc, now can have people more flexibly meet the needs of the raid on the fly. Time is a limited resource even for these folks and they don’t want to be in Karazhan or SSC forever. Being able to swap then and there to fill in for a DC’d Tank or an AFK Healer is exceptionally helpful.

I just see far more good than bad and even if Dual Spec were to become inextricably linked with the fastest of the fast speed runs, I’d be OK with that. That kind of meta chasing trickles down and people who never thought to try actively using alternative specs like that suddenly have a reason to chase down caster gear on their otherwise Feral Druid.

This is a case where I think Dual Spec only adds options without actually taking anything away, so aside from social pressure to maintain two “meta” specs to swap between as needed (as opposed to just one), this helps everyone out and makes alternative playstyles a bit more attractive to play around with. And I get the irony of dropping 5k gold to make this feel accessible when a short flight and 50g (at worst) can get you the same thing… people just like unlocking things.

I’d pay 5k gold if I got an Endless Flask of Fortification that I could chug once every 2 hours just so I never have to go to the damned AH again. I get it is just laziness and convenience, but I’d be willing to pay out the nose for that kind of laziness and convenience the same way I did for epic flying.

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Back in 2009, Ghostcrawler made indications to the state of Vanilla TBC raiding when Sunwell was released. This was with regard to the “bring the player not the class” mentality that Blizzard was trying to adopt through WotLK.

"We aren’t seeing anyone sidelined on raids or being stacked in raids, certainly nothing on the order of what was happening in Sunwell, so I wouldn’t call it a failure by any stretch. Arms warriors and rogues are the closest to being sidelined, but we think that is largely a function of their damage being too low in PvE. Specs that were brought for buffs or not brought at all in BC are doing competitive dps, healing or tanking.

Bring the player, not the class does not mean class is irrelevant. You can put together a lot of bizarre class mixes that probably won’t work. What it does mean is that you have a ton more flexibility than in Sunwell over which classes you bring and you should be able to get all of the buffs you need (and yes Replenishment is one of those) and still have enough free slots to double up on whatever classes you want or just bring the guys you like to raid with.

We also expect Ulduar, and especially the hard modes, to shine a much harsher light on class balance. There will be great debates about which buffs and debuffs are truly optional or not and which classes are the least likely to earn a raid spot. It’s going to be interesting, perhaps a bit rocky, but we’re also prepared to make whatever changes we need to make."

Taken from here:

https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/15234891471-bring-the-player-not-the-class-a-failure/

The concern, at the time was that dual spec would be implemented before class balancing had occurred, meaning that hybrid specs would receive priority over single-specs.

Dual Spec would arguably function better in TBC since class homogenization hadn’t started to occur yet. In other words a “spec” in TBC isn’t just one of three primary subsets. There’s a reason you might bring a Boomkin over a Cat, even though they’re both technically a “DPS Spec.”

In TBC, classes were more distinguished which means dual-spec actually offers you more options than it ever would have if implemented in Wrath. If, for instance, I were to dual-spec as a Balance Druid, that would mean I could provide casters in my group with an aura in addition to providing everyone with an extra 3% hit chance with Improved FF. I can’t do that as a Cat.

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I think you and Fasc make alot of good points, and it’s definitely changed the way I think about dual spec being implemented. I can see now there are definitely more benefits and positives to dual spec other than just saving players a bit of time and tedium, and in some ways the benefits do outweigh the detriments.

When it comes to speed clears and things like that, perhaps Warcraftlogs could implement some rules around using DS similar to how they had rules about swapping players in vanilla raids.

Thanks for the discussion!

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From your replies to other posts that’s exactly what I expect from you.

:expressionless:

Did you ever think it was just you? Being an entitled jerk here makes me think you are also an entitled jerk in game. Who would want to party with you.

No it wasn’t, it was 1,000g. Later it was lowered to 100g and then to 10g. At some point the level required was reduced from 40 to 30 as well.

:rofl:

Which planet were you on then?

Hrmmm you’re right. I remember feeling like I had to drop a nice hunk of coin on it but I don’t really remember it being this cheap.

Maybe I was just that poor back then…

It’s possible. I felt like I was rich at the time because I was able to buy it on every alt that was 40+ at the time (which was only 3 or 4 characters) but if it had been 5,000 I definitely would not have. I’m not even 100% certain I would have been able to.

Maybe I’m remembering dropping huge hunks of change on epic flying for all my alts… I don’t know.

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lol that’s all that was needed to be said to the person.

If tanks and healers need to pre-raid gear for 2 specs, they would be running them a lot more.

Gear is always an incentive.

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