You can trust me I’m your state senator
So you know how in retail, you can choose any spec you want at any time?
And there is a bonus satchel for tanks and healers during peak shortages?
and how in retail Threat management is almost non existent because of massive buffs to how threat works?
And how gear swaps stats allowing you to have the same gear set for tanking and dpsing?
And how unique tanking stats were removed to make tanking more accessible?
And how tanking kits were trimmed down to make learning a tanking class easier?
After all that, there are still long queue times for dps looking for dungeons.
So rather than just an opinion, how about the fact that all these improvements have not solved the problem?
Dual spec might have a marginal improvement, but what percent is needed for you to consider it a success?
Is 1% increase in tanks enough for you?
Is 5%?
A couple other people in this topic have stated that any amount of improvement is enough, but is that really true?
rather than asking others for evidence, do you have any evidence that dual spec would seriously properly help the tank shortage?
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I love tanking. My pallys and druids have always been tanks from their first point and never anything else for going on 15 years now.
I will not tank for pugs. Guild only.
The same thing that happened with the first dual spec would happen with the second: All it would do is give my pally/druid a heal spec the guild could access more easily. Edit to add: and some of my other guildies have heal/dps options… again no new tanks/heals pugging.
Dual spec didn’t help the shortage the first time around… it won’t help on round 2 either.
Tanks will tank. Not tanks will not tank.
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We’ve given evidence. You just like to ignore it because you’re asking for specifics that don’t exist.
The fact that all the QoL tanking changes in Retail never made a lick of difference to how long it takes the average group to find a Tank is evidence enough that simply one of them (and not the one that makes more people tank) wouldn’t make any difference in TBCC. You don’t need to implement it to know that.
Keep in mind I say this as someone who would benefit massively from Dual Spec, it would make my life much easier to not have to pay for respecs every few days. Also keep in mind that me being able to easily switch from DPS to Prot wouldn’t make me tank anything for PuGs, in fact I would probably tank a lot less because I could very easily pick and choose when I want to tank.
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That’s not a fact at all, it’s blatantly false.
exaggerating doesn’t help your case.
the issue is not solved in retail, but effects have been seen.
My point is that all the changes made to tanking specifically in Retail didn’t do anything significant to increase the amount of tanks in the LFG pool. Dual Spec doesn’t incentivise people who don’t already tank to tank and certainly doesn’t incentivise people who do tank to suddenly want to tank PuGs
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I just got into a dungeon on my Lock in less than 10 min on retail at 1:00am in the morning, that’s pretty good compared to the HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUR or more wait time you can have in TBCC. Common sense says that is an improvement.
The only time you’re gonna wait for long periods of time in retail for a tank is the further you go on mythic+, the amount of tanks that are willing to pug a mythic 22 is probably 1% of tanks at most.
In fact try and get a pug group for Heroic SH on tbc and a pug mythic +5 TNW and see what fills first.
Tanks are already the least played role not only on retail but on tbcc as well, one has a better time finding groups while the other doesn’t. If it takes 10 minutes to find a group in retail while it can take 20+ minutes on tbcc…that’s already better cause you shaved half the time, so the whole not doing anything argument you tried to do just now failed.
If adding DS increases the amount of tanks there are in tbcc by 5%…that is still 5% better than it is now.
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And how many servers are in that pool? Pretty much all of them…
Edit to add: Retail has one “fix to tank shortages” on top of another and quite often you’re still waiting a while.
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Changing your stance a ton here.
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You gave no evidence only piss poor opinions on hyperbole actions that have been proven the complete opposite on claims against DS
Have you tried to find groups on both? cause I just tried it on retail and tbcc, it took less amount of time to find a dungeon group in retail than it does on tbcc…AND this was done at 1am today.
Also damn I can switch between dps or tanking on my retail warrior with ease, hell I can even go pvp then go tank after. Meanwhile my 61 tbcc warrior is fubard if I want to tank a few dungeons then want to pvp after, cause eventually you have to respec back into a tank or pve dps spec after you’re done pvping.
Cool story you don’t like pugs
what level of difficulty of dungeon did you get into on retail?
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I don’t think you know the meaning of that 
Considering you play a druid, if you were sick of any sort of queue times on retail or any moment from patch 3.1 (wotlk) to SL you can go from boomkin to guardian and back to guardian again as many times you want to. Congrats that moment just made people tank more with DS than w/o it.
Saying DS has done nothing for tank problems is completely stupid and hogwash.
I love the double specced DPS , like warriors that arms/fury, druid that feral and boomkin.
I guess it’s a really good thing I’ve never said that.
So what level of dungeon did you get into for your retail test?
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come on guys the lv. 27 rogue who said he quest before cata knows what he’s talking about
Heroic, whats even more funny is I’m looking at the premade group finder for mythic+ groups and almost every group fills in less than 10 min unless its groups like this spires 15+ thats been in finder for 16 min as of this post.
In fact I’ll drop a mic on this whole stupid “DS has done nothing for group finding in retail” crap people have been going on about. You want to know what makes finding a group time consuming in retail? the FACT you have to get a mythic rating or IO after a certain point or no one is gonna take a dps who has 0 rating and they are trying to get a 16+ in a pug.
I guess its a good thing I’ve never said this.
What I have said is that Dual spec didn’t solve the tank shortage.
I have also listed off a ton of systems implemented that have also helped with the issue, but not completely solved it.
How can you take dozens of changes, and just pick dual spec and claim it will be the answer.
So you’re taking note of every new group that forms, then timing and tracking all of the groups, and that’s how you know its taken less than 10 minutes? Very cool.
There is no io in tbcc, but the point of quoting this is to show that just having accessibility (dual spec/All specs) is not all there is to tanking, or solving the issue. I have stated and will repeat that I agree that dual spec will have an effect, but it wont solve the problem.
You said this.
But also
So it sounds to me like you also dont believe that dual spec will solve the issue. It might help, but not solve it, and since retail has a collection of systems working together to improve the situation, it for sure wont have the same comparative success.
I have nothing against dual spec. But coming into the forums and making wild claims like it needs to be added to solve a problem shouldn’t be praised.
All that does is set an example for people to complain again once the tank issue isn’t solved, and look towards adding more features to solve it, when the true solution to solving the tank shortage is for the community as a whole to change how they treat tanks.
This is not a shot at you or saying you treat tanks badly, but tanking is a stressful role, made more difficult by the pressures of the average mindset of players.
The fear of losing threat.
The fear of not correctly marking targets for CC.
The fear of dps accusing someone of not being able to tank properly.
While these are not all the issues, the listed examples are just to show that the issue goes way beyond
“I’m not tank spec.”
Can you even see a 5% change in anything? Can you really go into a Tbcc world with dual spec, and even notice if there are 5% more tanks?
That’s not significant. That’s not a solution. That’s not even a bandaid.
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Admittedly I haven’t played Retail since February, but the fact you can find a group easily at 1am isn’t because Tanks can easily change specs. It’s because you’re in an automated group finding system that pulls from literally everyone playing and queueing at that time, regardless of what time zone they’re in.
If you want an easier time finding groups in TBCC, try for Dungeon Finder instead. If you want to stop lying to yourself that you don’t just want Dual Spec so you don’t have to pay for respecs then that’s fine and I have no issues with that. Like I said I’d quite enjoy the addition of Dual Spec, just stop pretending it’ll do anything to make more Tanks.
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“Took 10 minutes to find a heroic dungeon”
That’s nice, heroics in retail are still easier than NORMAL level 70 dungeons in tbcc. It’s mythic+10ish that would be comparable to a tbcc heroic. And even that is being a little generous.
Even so, that 10 minute wait wasn’t just from dual spec. There are over a dozen changes made to improve the tank shortage in retail, and dual spec is likely one of the least impactful ones for pug tank wait times.
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