That the line is slightly moved doesn’t mean it is removed.
And we’ve seen where that line is, they’ve already gone far beyond adding dual spec in terms of what’s in scope for changes.
Sorry but it’s “some” changes, not “all” changes.
Your position necessitates being basically okay with any change. If you can’t sufficiently defend not putting LFR and LFD, or the modern day retail spec in to the game, then you haven’t made a good argument for why dual spec isn’t the same as just adding those too.
It’d be easy to make the same silly arguments you’re making for dual spec for those features as well (there’s no downside!).
The retail talent spec adds things that you cannot do in bc. There are talents that you cannot use in bc in any way. Dual spec doesn’t add anything new. It just makes it easier to do the things you can already do. It’s nothing more than a qol change.
You’re reading too literally into that. “We” is used as a general term here. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s including every single player. It feels like a stretch to validate your argument with something that isn’t really elaborated on any further outside of the title.
But let’s assume that you’re right and I rescind my argument when I say “nobody is saying that”. Realistically, how many people are we looking at who’ve actually said that, and how many of them are actually getting the visibility needed for Blizzard to actually see and take action?
Judging from that post you just linked, probably none. To combat something so minuscule feels pointless.
We also have blue posts that outright say changes were going to happen in TBC, and judging by the amount of changes made, I doubt they’re stopping anytime soon.
Also, I would like to point out that a blue post is not, and should not, be the definitive answer. While I am well aware that they are game designers who are more technically attuned to how their systems work, oftentimes how they work in a more practical setting is different from the trajectory than they intended.
Retail is a prime example. They clearly have ideas and beliefs about how the systems should work, but the end result is much more different than what they anticipated.
Obviously, mechanics from a much older game is different than that of retail, if only because an older client implies that they have the hindsight to understand how things will operate should they make a change because they’ve seen it played out before. That said, TBC wasn’t a perfect game, while we can argue back and forth that the authenticity should or shouldn’t remain intact, flaws and all, at the end of the day the forums exist to create a dialogue between the player and the developer.
You’re free to disagree with these posts, too, but a blue post commenting on dual spec shouldn’t be the end of this discussion. It should continue to be discussed, if only because it could still potentially be added at a later point when fresh servers are added much like Season of Mastery in Classic.
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lol wtf
What even is this argument?
So does that mean that since you’re OK with adding dual spec, it means you’re okay with adding 10 extra talent points and wrath talents?
Obviously I’m referring to the literal interface of changing specs, not adding in all of the new abilities, skills, and talents added in later expansions.
You’re talking about what line blizzard has for changes, we’ve see that line already. Dual spec does not cross it.
You asked what is the difference between adding dual spec compared to adding the retail talent spec.
The answer is
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Until Blizzard tells us directly, you have no flabbering clue where that line is.
However you do have hints: how important it seems to them that they keep dual spec in the public consciousness actively on their part.
Which is to say: zero care.
You took “add in retail spec” to mean adding in every single new ability that was in the game when the current form of respeccing was put in the game.
That means I can take “adding dual spec” to mean adding in all the WOTLK talents and abilities that were added when dual spec was.
Your argument is bad, and I just very plainly explained why, and you will still not admit to it.
No i don’t know where their line, but we can look at changes they’ve already for comparison, and sorry but the reality is they’re clearly willing to make far more radical changes than dual spec.
So yeah I can safely say dual spec would no cross their line.
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There is no comparison. Go ahead and make one to humor me though.
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That wasn’t clear at all. You should have said something like the spec change system in retail. But of course you have to blame your inability to use English clearly and correctly on me and then insult me. I’ve posted to you several times without a single insult while you’ve insulted people several times. I don’t really care that you constantly insult people but when you get insults in return you cry about it like a baby who dropped their pacifier. You can dish it out but you can’t take it.
As for the retail spec change system, I’m perfectly fine with adding that. But given that blizzard is a lazy company that doesn’t want to invest money in improving the game I try to only ask for small qol changes like dual spec.
It’s quite simply, you don’t like that though, because at the end of the day you’re terrified we actually will get dual spec.
For example let’s say I see someone at one of those carnival strength tests with the hammer. Now if I see someone get halfway to the bell, i can’t say they can get all the way to the top but i can say they can also get at least a quarter of the way up. Or let’s say I see a car going 50 mph, I can’t say that it can go 100mph, but I can say it can go 25 mph.
Same with dual spec, we can look at the changes they’ve already made and see they’ve already gone beyond dual spec so based solely on scope of the change dual spec is entirely possible.
I would argue the level boosts offered at the launch of TBC were far more dramatic than anything dual spec may do. The recent raid nerfs to SSC and TK were actually quite intense of a change that makes the game feel much more trivialized.
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Level boosts were added before launch and yeah, I’d honestly agree that they are pretty much one of the worst offenses that Blizzard has implemented for authenticity concerns.
However, it’s once per account, doesn’t necessarily affect the gameplay of level 70 characters, which make up a vast, vast, vast majority of active players so it’s…tolerable in that sense. Obviously bots and RMT businesses will do what they do regardless of whether they get a shortcut or not.
Dual spec has active ramifications on level 70 experience that will be felt almost every moment of the time you play, and whether those ramifications are positive or negative is completely irrelevant. The very fact it will heavily alter the experience is the reason it cannot be added and is too far over the line, because the whole point of TBCC is to have a minimally altered experience in alignment with the original TBC.
The nerfed versions of T5 are accurate-to-era post nerf. So whether I find them to be too easy or not is also irrelevant.
I personally wanted them to remain unnerfed.
To pivot on this point, isn’t it a bit strange to justify the addition of a feature by highlighting other changes that turned out demonstrably horrid for the game? I could more or less use the boosts as an example of how people wanting something doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good for the game…because if you don’t remember there were plenty in favor of the boosts.
But it’s not a feature that is disruptive to the game itself. It’s a quality of life feature for something people already do in the game, which Blizzard has been more than willing to add in the past, such as the flight path dismounting button or the chronoboon displacer that allowed raiders to save their world buffs for later use.
Okay, such as?
I’m losing sight of the argument whenever this gets pointed out, because anyone that says this only ever says this and refuses to go into further detail as to how.
We got the wrath arena system give us the wrath respec system
Okay, say they add dual spec in.
How often do you think it would be used by the average player, give or take?
Once a month? Once a year? Give me your over/under.
How much do you think it would be used daily across the playerbase, you think?
If your answer is anything remotely resembling “frequently”, then there’s your explanation, you had it within you all along.
If it is a feature that would be heavily utilized daily, then it is clearly a game-changing feature that heavily alters the experience away from the original TBC.
None of the content or mechanics change, all you have is more people participating in more of it. You just sound like a major kill joy over an optional feature you could pretty much completely ignore who is only upset because other people are having fun.