my guild never did lmao. Hence my 92 best perf. Defs superiority complex tho.
Project harder?
Again, I’m in a casual guild, with casual kill times and casual parses. We don’t use any actually proper min-maxer items like sapper charges, agi and str scrolls, flamecaps, battle chickens, or do shenanigans with shamans.
I’m not the one claiming to be in a hard core mix max guild and using it as a reason to not have dual spec.
/shrug you opened this door by presenting yourself and your guild as ultra hardcore min maxxers who pull ever trick in the book for smallest edge.
And you clearly aren’t, you are being called on trying to claim you were as a reason for no dual spec.
Guys guys guys…
When he said min/max, what he was referring to was quality of post / number of posts on the forums. I’ve figured it out. We can all just ignore him now.
Seriously, stop feeding the trolls. Make room for some actual opinions.
I literally said in my deleted post “you could be the best hunter on your server, if your guild has kill times/raid dps like that they’re bringing you down. Why would you stay with them?”
And he spins this as “superiority complex”.
K
Actually, you know what, I’ll repost the deleted post verbatim. Here it is in its entirety (minus the censored word, which was the main reason I deleted it, seeming as I don’t want another forum ban 
)
This is stupid as hell, you could be the best hunter on your server, if the rest of your guild are so bad that they cant kill lurker before the second submerge you will literally never parse orange, because of kill time (for example). They’re literally dragging you down. Why would you accept **** from them?
^^^
I deliberately chose lurker as an example of my worst fight of the tier, due to poor phasing as a result of kill times/raid dps, which is a point of difference between a guild like mine (which doesn’t care about logs and therefore kill times) and a “mix max” guild, theoretically like yours, which should care if they’re as hardcore as you’re talking about. Allowing for the potential that maybe you might be a good player (logs notwithstanding), you are completely getting hamstrung by the 50% or so of your guild members who regularly parse green/grey, and why would you tolerate that kind of min-maxing toxicity if a.) they suck and b.) the raid is giving you no personal gain?
Superiority complex, apparently. Wonder who else would read it like that
You guys are just rehashing another version of the same argument Ziryus has rattled in 13 other forms…
“you don’t have to use it”
Whether it effects him or not is unquestionable no matter his style of play or guild or whatever.
Anybody having dual spec on a entire realm, effects everyone’s TBCC. Period.
It’s sort of like if people make a complaint that some form of content is much too easy, and you say to them “well you don’t have to wear your gear”.
Like, to imply that purposely not using what you’re given to maximize your performance or usefulness is the best option…doesn’t really pass the logic test.
Except like most things, and I know this concept confuses you, min maxxing is not an all or nothing practice, people do it to various degrees(similar to how someone can support some changes but not others). And since he was trying to portray himself as someone who min maxxes to the extreme, it’s very relevant to point out that he in fact full of it and does not do anything beyond the norms which is reflected in his totally average performance.
So sure if someone who is legitimately in a full on min max guild wants to weigh in on how dual spec might impact them, great, but it’s certainly not him. And he’s being called for trying to pretend he is.
I never said this.
I said what effects min maxing will effect me.
We don’t do the battle chicken cheese and other such things. We do try to min max our raid comp to a degree though. And dual spec would effect that.
But you love to twist what people say to fit your agenda.
And adding dual spec will not affect how you min max because your guild is not playing anywhere near the level they would care about that.
Which is why you’re being called out.
Hey if you were actually in that 99th percentile your opinion on how dual spec impacts min maxxing would be relevant but you’re not. You are clearly not using all the tools available to you now, why would adding one more change that?
It’s like someone who drives a civic to work complaining about the new Ferrari having an even faster top speed on the track, it literally has no impact on what you do.
Because it effects the “tools” we do use now.
Raid comp.
I’ve stated multiple times I’m treating g classic far more casually then I did the origional. Doesn’t mean we ignore the simplest part of min maxing, which is having a proper raid comp.
Dual spec effects that, so it will effect me.
We have had a hunter change to SV spec when our SV hunter was out for a week. I was honestly going to do it myself because I have the gold to respec regularly, but one of the other hunters was still in a MM pvp spec as the raid was forming so he got the SV role for the week.
In summation I have listed indisputable facts below. How you spin these facts for your narrative is entirely up to you.
Gold isn’t hard to get, stop complaining about it and do dailies/farm for your respec cost.
Dual Spec won’t change the game for you unless you want it to; you ultimately have control over your own gameplay regardless as to who pressures you to do what.
Blizzard has made changes and this is no longer a faithful recreation of the original TBC, because they changed their stance and have asked the community for feedback.
Everything is on the table unless explicitly stated as a part of the TBCC design by devs during the release/ongoing maintenance of TBCC, as they have not closed the doors to more changes. This does not mean that everything will change, it means that everything will be considered (possibly dismissed out of hand but not ignored).
Carry on making suggestions, Blizzard loves to hear them!
100% agreed.
False. It reduces the authenticity of my product further, a facet of the experience that I was promised.
This would be in addition to other things that have been added that also have reduced authenticity, of course, but the idea is to not make it worse.
That the product is or isn’t faithful right now in it’s current state is your subjective opinion that you’re simply using as leverage to dismiss authenticity concerns.
Blizzard still markets it as a faithful recreation, and until that changes, that’s what I will argue in favor of (within my means, obviously I can’t revert changes already made).
I mean, yeah, I don’t doubt that Blizzard at one point at the morning meeting may have said “hey so what about dualspec/cheap respeccing/multiple spec flex?”.
The problem is the level of naivety it takes to ignore what the conclusion to that discussion probably was, given how deep we are in TBCC, it’s lack of inclusion in Classic, SoM, and their proven demonstration of hesitance to change things that are already authentic.
You realize that dual spec doesn’t prevent you from changing your spec just like you do now? So in that one off situation one of you would have just bitten the bullet and respecced as normal. It’s pretty stupid to have all hunters maintain a SV off spec on the once in awhile chance 2 of them will be out, when that can be handled easily as I said above.
So yeah that reason is utter garbage as dual spec would still be better for you than the current situation.
False
Using this as reference
If the Ferrari drives on the road I use and decides to drive fast and causes an accident it effects me. Even though I chose not to get a Ferrari.
Same thing can and will happen with raids. Bench the person who refuses to get dual spec and bring the person who will. I saw this happen in wrath, we know it happens.
Yea this was a weird analogy Ziryus tried to make that completely backfires to any scrutiny…
Except that it also happens now, someone won’t switch specs for raid? They get benched. Dual spec improves that situation not worsens it.
Please explain this quote in its entirety if you’re going to make the claim that authenticity is unimportant to Blizzard (demonstrably false).
No, it makes it more common because it no longer costs gold to repeatedly go between 2 specs, and makes it requested to occur more often because the cost is effectively removed.
So you’re saying you think that Blizzard is intentionally not implementing dual spec to control your raid leader and force prevent him/her from asking you to optimize your raid comp?
I can see the meeting taking place right now…
“Guys if we do this, we are giving raid leaders infinite power. We cannot give raid leaders infinite power. We would be taking power away from the people and giving it to the patriarchy.”
“Power to the proletariat! Those bourgeoise scum can’t ask our hard working raiders to fill in a role this week! Fight the power, we will never cede this!”
If you’re so weak-willed that you can’t tell your raid leader to pay for your respec if the raid needs you to fill a role, then that’s entirely on you. If you don’t know how to play a role that you’re asked to play but you took gear for, maybe you shouldn’t have taken the gear.
ahhhh why did I reply… I’m done, you actually think Blizzard wants to control how raid comps are designed 15 years after the game was made, and after all the data that we have. It’s mind boggling to me. I’m done here for the day. Facts are facts, your feelings are just that, and they aren’t based in the reality that most players live in.
It’s a thread where they’re literally saying that they are considering making changes, are you high?