A Retail feature where you have alternative models for existing races.
And that’s fair. It’s neither right nor wrong. @Intolerables, would you agree?
Yes, I saw and responded to it:
And as with most things consumables have a much much higher impact on raid performance than a couple people switching specs once in awhile.
So yeah not really the same thing.
I mean. I played through all of TBC, Wrath and Cataclysm, including as hybrid classes, and in my opinion it didn’t do that at all, in fact it opened the way for me to get to play both aspects of a hybrid (in my case, frost DPS death knight and Blood tank death knight) at the highest level of content, which was much more fun than if I had been effectively restricted by arbitrary respec fees to just one of those.
TLDR Ghostcrawler’s experience wasn’t mine.
Hurting class identity is not a tangible downside to the individual player.
Ghostcrawler was just bitter some of design ideas end up falling flat on their face and he likes to trash WoW.
Again most of us clearly state dual spec will not solve the problem. We’ve said it over and over and over and over and over again. Yet still you misunderstand or are being deliberately misleading.
Your diagram is off in many ways, here’s one.
It’s more than your post implies. Here’s another flaw in your reasoning. Each person who decides to do some dungeons as a tank or healer affects at least 3 dps who have trouble finding a group and often a tank or healer. But we do agree that it will make it easier for players to find dungeon groups and competition in arena. We just disagree with how much.
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I don’t recall bringing up the phrase “min maxing” at all, the fact that using consumeables are “min maxing” doesn’t really weigh into the argument for me, but you do you
What’s extra funny about this is he’s also perfectly fine advocating that people just not play in a proper yet somehow he also cares about min maxxing?
Then why ask for it?
Why not ask for Cross-Realm LFD? Or unlimited free re-specs?
Why are you being so prescriptive for a solution that won’t fix the problem?
Because improving the situation is better than nothing.
But why not pursue another solution that will do a better job at fixing the problem?
citation needed. In the sample size of my guild, with its 40 odd players, every single hybrid player (bar about two) would like to freely be able to switch specs.
Case study #1: My arena partner, a resto druid, often switches to boomkin in our raids out of necessity (due to raid absences etc), and enjoys it. He wishes he could do this without the gold cost. He’s also a multiglad btw (just throwing that in there for the brags)
Case study #2: My mate chiff. Has a (very geared, full merc + stormherald) alt warrior. He doesn’t mind tanking, and likes being able to tank heroics (which he has an okay set of tanking gear for). However to do this, speccing prot is mandatory (or he can’t hit crush cap, and can die). It’s burdensome to pay 50g to do it, he’d do it more often if it wasnt expensive (100g round trip).
Theres countless other similar stories for almost every other hybrid player in my guild, bar about 2 i can think of (a resto druid who only wants to play resto, and an spriest who doesn’t want to do anything other than that).
I don’t accept that assertion. I think some might. But my counter is that people don’t typically participate in the game without incentives to do so. That’s why there is a reward system.
Simply having one more spec to toggle is not going to get people doing stuff in game that they already don’t get anything out of doing. And in fact, having to pay for respecs is one thing that motivates people to actually do stuff in game.
Now maybe that’s just me (you seem to think so). I don’t think I’m that atypical though. And from my perspective your assertion that people will want to tank and run dungeons more with a second spec just because they have another spec option they already have for a messily 50g doesn’t seem likely.
You’re preaching it, you’re not arguing it. I don’t see any justification for your assertion in your comments. You assume it will work the way you assert. Where you do give a reason is where you claim “it worked in Wrath”.
But even there I don’t think it did.
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It seems as though the problem is not fixable. It can only be mitigated to some degree. Improving the situation with a small change is better than no change and no improvement at all even if it’s not a 100% fix.
I’m not disputing there are users who would use dual spec. I’m highlighting that dual spec is a highly prescriptive solution to the problem and there are more effective alternatives. If increasing participation is all that matters.
It could be mitigated more effectively through alternative solutions. Such as unlimited free respecs.
Some times people don’t participate in parts of the game because there are disincentives to doing so. Removing those disincentives can be all that is needed to get them to do those parts of the game.
So why not have unlimited free respecs? Then players can spec for PvP, Solo, AOE Farming, Group Content, at their leisure and dramatically increase participation.
You are still assuming everyone would treat dual spec like you did.
Which ignores everyone who has explained why they wouldn’t and that yes a lot of people in wrath actively used dual spec. As far as reward goes? Well the daily dungeons are a perfect example of that, someone with dual spec might see oh I can make some quick gold tanking/healing one of these, where as no dual spec they simply don’t because it won’t even cover the cost of switching specs.
Some people have suggested that. It’s been discussed and I don’t believe it would be more effective. But the people I discussed it with previously actually wanted unlimited free respecs. You don’t actually want that do you? I’m not interested in a theoretical discussion where you play devil’s advocate. I’m not here playing debate.