Yes, you’re going to kill things faster if you have more dps.
Consequently, you’re down one healer, so you die faster.
Anything else?
Okay cool, you’re sort of following, half way there.
Right, you pew pew harder and die easier with two healers as opposed to three.
Now, here’s the tricky bit, on some fights you can skip the dangerous mechanics by killing the boss before getting to them - so you can do more dps and have the fight be easier and quicker. On other fights you can’t.
So, some fights you don’t need the extra healer and on others you do.
Now - the money shot - imagine if you can switch specs on the fly so that you could have more healers on the fights you need them for and less on the ones you don’t? Would that make the raid any easier? Do you think?
I know I’m being an A-Hole and patronizing but I simply don’t believe you don’t get this. I think you are lying through your teeth with these inane questions. There’s not a shred of honesty in the questions you’re asking, you know full well the point I’m making and understand it clearly. You’re taking the forum and me for a ride to push a childish, selfish, and entitled agenda. Unfortunately the long term culture of this forum protects such tactical behaviour and has done for many years.
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How is this any different than what we’ve already established?
Disagree with the “easier” bit. Ease and difficulty are player-dependent variables.
Not true. You don’t always need the extra healer. However, my guild takes it because we feel that actually makes things easier. Plus, we have 3 people in our guild who enjoy healing so it gives them something to do.
No, it doesn’t make the raid inherently easy or hard because dual spec has no effect on any raid mechanics. All it does is affect your ability to choose between one of two specs.
NO. Come back in wrath for that. You wanted the version of the game that was live in 2006. Live with it. If you want these features they have it in live shadowlands.
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So gear and spec play no part in the ease? I’m assuming your guild clears Kara naked and specless then? No wonder you feel dual spec makes no difference to the ease of content …
There’s a lot of variables that contribute to the difficulty of a raid. Spec and raid composition are variables as is player skill level and encounter knowledge. There’s not just a single variable.
I think this may be the core issue, to you everything in a raid is reducible to a single variable - the players. In doing this overreduction you allow yourself to conclude that allowing on the fly respecs has no impact on the difficulty of a raid.
I’m sorry but that is overly simplistic and completely wrong. If players could switch specs on the fly in an encounter (and adjust talent choice for each spec on the fly as well - aka the Cata model) this absolutely would contribute to the ease of raids. Dramatically. And various dual specs and previously unused talent choices will become a meta and “mandatory” as a result. Maybe not for you personally in your specific guild but definitely for the majority of players.
It is a non trivial change to the core game design - the implementation you’re putting forward.
This is why I use the “peeing in the pool” analogy earlier. What you’re suggesting may make your life easier and feel better for you, and maybe the impact of it won’t be something that affects you but everyone else has to swim in the same pool too …
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Dual-spec has no impact on the gear you wear.
Not a feeling. Just the facts, ma’am.
You seem to think that repeatedly stating this somehow makes it true.
It doesn’t.
What I actually said was:
Again you’re completely and dishonestly misquoting me.
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What you actually said was:
In response to that question, my answer was the following:
As for this one:
This is true, there are a lot of variables that contribute to the difficulty of the raid.
Dual spec is not inherently one of those things.
Nice gotcha. Yeah I copied the wrong quote, corrected now.
However you still purposefully misquoted me and lied about what I meant.
You’re essentially making stuff up to win an argument and get what you want like a spoilt little child. There’s not a shred of honesty in your discussion, you’re transparently seeking to mislead and misrepresent whatever it takes.
Absolutely abysmal the way you quote one word of context and made up a view I never said. Completely fabricated it. Absolutely laughable. Imagine if I quoted single words you’ve said to make out that you had an entirely different opinion? Completely selfish liar.
Like this:
See two can play this game of completely misquoting and misrepresenting someone.
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I haven’t made anything up. And I can hardly win an argument if there’s no argument being had. What’s going on between you and I right now is that I’m asking you to clarify what you mean and you’re unable to do it.
An argument needs two substantive viewpoints opposing each other. You haven’t even got past the substantive viewpoint yet.
Not really. Every quote allows folks to retroactively inspect it by clicking the arrows on the upper right corner to see what was actually said.
Feel free to edit however you please. 
but they are…
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Bumping until blizzard pulls their heads out of where the sun don’t shine.
I personally don’t like dual-spec for pretty much the same types of issues that you outlined here. Although I have proposed a potential compromise that would allow those wanting dual-spec while eliminating this problem.
So to preface the main reasons people give for why they want dualspec are the following:
- Not having to pay 50g every time they want to PVP or farm or having to do these activities in a sub-optimal build
- Being able to change specs so they could fill roles in dungeon runs
Ok now that we’ve established the “want” let’s clarify that neither of these stated goals would require us to harm raid balance if we go about it in the right manner.
The solution I think works the best and (should in theory) make everyone happy is what I call “spec-locking”
The idea of this is that we allow dual-spec within the game like it is within wrath/cata however there is a limitation. Once you have killed a boss in an instance that locks you (raid or heroic) you can’t change your spec while inside that instance. If you exit the raid, change to your other spec, and zone in you’ll automatically be switched to the locked spec.
There would still be a way to get around this which would be going back to a class trainer and paying the gold to respec the locked spec. So in this way it would be no different than it is currently.
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So you FEEL but don’t actually know.
Well guess what, dual spec was implemented and has existed longer than it hasn’t existed so if there has been a negative impact you should be able to point to at least one specific thing.
This doesn’t make any sense. If it could be done most likely people were already doing it. TBC is not new content.
I don’t disagree with this. I’m not arguing in favour of dual spec I just have yet to see a single argument against it that isn’t based on someone’s feelings.
It’s because you aren’t actually making a point, you just want me to feel the same way as you.
Nope, my point is that you should be able to at least articulate some negative impact that dual spec had when it was introduced to the game. It would stand to reason since it is a QOL change that those impacts would also be felt if it were introduced in TBC.
It’s already happening because some random streamers who never played TBC said DPS warriors and Rogues are going to be bad. The majority of the player base are fickle meta sheep.
Appealing to authority? I’m not sure exactly what the point is you’re trying to make here.
Sure. The implementation is dual spec same as it was in Wrath. 1000g and done.
You keep throwing the word implementation around as if introducing dual spec would have any more impact than having someone run around on a boosted mount.
the answer is in the part of the post you purposefully ignored, doofus.
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I know you are, but what am I?
Sure, if people have weird concerns about abusing and making 15 year old raid content easier, whatever. But, not having dual spec at this point is hurting the game. I play significantly less and so do my guild members because of lack of spec switching.
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I’m willing to bet the total number of hours played, tallied across the entire tbcc population wouldn’t change in any significant measure if dual spec were added.
Yes, individually, there would be more players spending more time in-game…at least nominally…but I’m guessing it would be as impactful as a drop in a bucket.
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Unlike you, you’re just making the modest, and well evidenced claim that everybody wants TBC to have Dual spec … /sarcasm
Pretty arrogant to think you can make the game better for everyone from your armchair - oh yeah I forgot, you’re some hotshot software engineer … who needs to be familiar with the original, we’ve played retail we know how to build a great MMO! hold my beer …
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Obviously not everybody.
But most of us. World isn’t perfect, after all