Thoroughly debunked… you mean them saying “nuh uh you’re wrong! I’m right!”
When we know how people min max this game…
No it means your weird idea that dual spec creates some massive advantage simply doesn’t align with reality and how game mechanics actually work. The reality is most people get no benefit out of dual spec in a raid as they’ll be in the same spec the entire time, because guess what, optimal raid specs are optimal raid specs.
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Nope, this was thoroughly explained to you in detail earlier in this thread. We’re not typing it out for a 10th time.
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OK there’s a very big thing you’re obviously Is ignoring dual speck Does not increase your raids DPS Healing Is and tanking up by at least 30% across-the-board.
Yeah of course more people did it because it’s such a huge huge increase I don’t care what combinations of specs you have there is no way.
That it would even equivalent to being close to the amount of power that world buffs would give you So yeah there’s a huge difference there.
It depends on the situation We’ve had some situations where we’ve had our shadow priest ris auto priest respect Is heels.
It’s not very common and not very often at least not in my experience but you can’t say it’s not something that people would do especially with majors being to open up portals.
So again It’s not something That would be commonly used But it’s something nice to have That’s why I’m saying doors back would be good because.
Depending on the type of player it gives you choice Especially what you the game is now I would make an argument it’s necessary because we’re losing people and I say this as a tank for the record.
And I can say as a tank Questing and farming absolutely sucks And I know quite a bit of healers that feel the same way.
Ah it depends what they do with it From the way things are looking right now I don’t have high hopes cause it literally just looks like OK we make the leveling experience faster and its shorter.
I’m gonna play the Beta give my feedback Is often on however if I’m being honest I don’t have high hopes
It doesn’t matter to me what they do with it. I just replayed vanilla. I’m actually still playing vanilla with alts. Replaying a game after 15 years can be fun but starting all over and replaying it again after a few months is boring imo. I’ll continue with BC and Wrath if blizzard hasn’t destroyed the game by then. Maybe in another decade I might decide to replay vanilla again if it’s available but I won’t play it every year over and over again. Best of luck to those who like that sort of thing but it won’t be me.
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As I said I mean I’m posting on there and I will give feedback but quite frankly I get the impression of nothing significant is really going to change.
And I’m just like yeah you you have fun with your terrible PVP system you are Is same class Combs that don’t really play different you you guys have fun with that and I am just going to stick to wrath and tbc.
It makes me sad because I think there is a real potential there to be something incredible I jis incredible I just don’t think that they’re willing to press the line enough
It’s not an idea, it’s fact.
In wotlk better guilds utilized dual spec to make fights easier by optimizing their spec per fight.
Even just using one fight as an example from ssc. I forget the name of the boss but the sea giant that summons murlocks and
does watery tomb.
Mages can dual spec into frost for slows on the murlocks to help tanks pick them up, warlocks can spec into seed having reduced threat as their second spec. Paladin can spec for his aoe farming spec to get more aggro per concentrate and keep running murlocks In a circle from the mages slows and not lose aggro to the warlocks spamming seed on the boss as the melee and hunters focus on popping the seeds while using what aoe they have on the murlocks.
Dual spec changes how raids approach fights by s fight by fight basis. This is a fact that was seen in wotlk, and we know people chase the meta and we will see it in tbcc if dual spec is added.
Currently the time lost for the raid and the gold costs per change vastly discourage the behavior of specializing per boss fight to be the best optimization you can be. AND IT STILL HAPPENS on occasion. You are trying to tell me dual spec won’t vastly chabge player behavior and the expected norm? Ya, no, world buffs showed us the lengths people would go through to be min maxed. Dual spec will be abused if it’s added. This isn’t a “might happen”. It will happen if it’s added.
OK 1st things 1st Again I would make an argument that you still need to do the mechanics as far as prop palladins I can tell you Especially if you’re ray tanking yeah no you’re pretty locked in you are 49/12 You need all that extra survivability.
2nd of all you cannot compare dual spec to world buffs that’s not nearly the increase that world buffs are going to give you We’re talking about the difference between a 1% advantage Like maybe 2 To a 30% Advantage to the entire raid not just one class.
Let alone It’s been my experience when I see mechanics most pages are going arcane anyway because you know what.
Crowd control doesn’t always matter if you can just kill the things before it has become a problem Yeah the hardcore gills well.
And I know because I’ve talked to people who are in hardcore gills on my server and based on is my server and basically the feeling is this.
Yes if you’re in a high progression Guild like I’m saying yeah we’re killing the entire tier 4 in an hour roughly yeah sure that’s the type of Guild that will do that.
But gilds like for example mine I’m in a casual rating Guild and I’ve asked my GM about this several times.
And basically the unanimous name replies with this You certainly can if you want to But no one’s going to force you.
Because I’m in a casual Guild that’s what I’m trying to get across it’s not going to be this huge meta defining thing that you think let alone.
A lot of classes only One specter raid with anyway tell me in pvp What does dual spec do for a hunter Or a rogue.
Or heck a warlock I mean again We know what the optimal specs are for the classes now it’s just that simple.
And the people that are really going to To push that type of thing are the top 30% anyway so again it’s not gonna be a big as of promise you think.
You know why because we’ve seen it how many private servers that we’ve seen dual speck in and they skilled up the bosses.
And it wasn’t really a Meta thing there And it honestly really wasn’t a medicine in retail until mop technically.
So again I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill here
No it doesn’t, you might have 1 or 2 tanks/healers switching roles(which they do anyways, they would just be in a proper spec) but that’s hardly a massive change and has no impact on the over all strat or how mechanics have to be handled.
You just have a very very poor knowledge of actual game mechanics and how raiding works. That’s why you can’t give an actual reasonable example of how it would be abused that doesn’t demonstrate your lack of knowledge.
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Yep that’s what I would say maybe 1 or 2 people if there tanks are healers maybe
Yep, and it’s ridiculous to compare the huge advantages of world buffs which required the entire raid to actually work to get and gave a huge advantage, to the extremely minor advantage a couple of people switching specs on a few fights(to specs they likely have anyways since most tanks/healers will have a dps secondary).
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Yep especially since there are some classes that just don’t have a secondary speck that’s going to add any extra utility again hunters and robes are a huge one.
I mean I guess you could argue survival maybe but let’s be real let’s be real if you’re a hunter you’re probably going beast mastery well it going beast mastery warlocks OK you’ve got curse of exhaustion.
But again with the type of damage you’re pumping out is it really going to be that big of a thing?
I’ll do my best! I think it is important to remind insignificant people on how insignificant their demands and they, themselves, are.
As far as a vacation goes, you have to understand that it does not really affect me: getting attention from the internet gives meaning to your life, not mine.
Also, another day, another reminder you did not get and will not be gettng dual spec!
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And another day to tell you Is that we’re not quitting If it takes 5 million posts or as many as it takes we’re gonna keep going until it either one goes in the game.
Too we hear a blue post saying that it won’t Or 3 wrath comes out
Hilarious. It’s like you think the devs are looking at this thread and saying, “Fraud makes some good points.” If you truly had the intelligence to analyze the situation you’d know that you are just as insignificant to blizzard as everyone else in this thread. The only thing that might matter on this forum is the number of threads on a topic, the number of posts, and the number of likes. And if you had an ounce of integrity you’d admit that you’re just here to insult people. I doubt you even care if dual spec is added, except if it is added you won’t have a long thread to insult people.
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The more comments on the thread the more of a chance blizzard will notice it
We need this
It’s not the amount of advantage dual spec gives over world buffs, it’s the principle. Playing in optimal spec for specific encounters or trash packs gives a clear advantage over playing in non optimal spec. People that want dual spec for PvP argue that being in an optimal PvP spec gives a clear advantage over being in a hybrid or PvE spec, so the same must be true for PvE.
For example I’ve read that a hemorrhage spec is better for rogues during trash fights due to the faster kill times of mobs, but the default combat sword spec is better overall for bosses. So if dual spec were in the game rogues would be able to swap back and forth between the hemo spec and the boss spec over and over again throughout the raid, further min/maxing performance. Currently trying to do this would involve so much time and coordination that the value from swapping specs would be negated by the time it takes. Porting out and swapping specs for trash is never worth the time it takes, the trash will always just die faster if you stayed and helped, and even if you did swap for trash you’d have to do it all over again once you get to the next boss. Sure there may be cases where one or two players slip out to respec while the rest of the raid kills trash, but I’m talking about 10-15 players swapping specs.
I’m not saying that guilds are going to make dual spec for things like trash packs or individual bosses required from everyone. But I think that giving individual players the option to do so will encourage more and more uses for dual spec swaps to be theory-crafted and will lead to even more min/maxing than we see now. The gap between the top parsing players will widen and dual spec swapping will become more or less mandatory if you want to push for 99 parses or top performance ranks. I understand that not all players have the mindset, but while adding in WoTLK dual spec makes the game more convenient and less annoying for you it makes the game less convenient and more annoying for others.
If you want to put a cooldown on swapping specs or restrict the usage to major cities/rested areas then OK that works for me. That solves the problem almost instantly and if players support that then I’m all for it. But without some sort of modification to it I can almost promise you that you’ll see more than just the sweatiest guilds on your server using dual spec for raiding. The players you’ll see using dual spec swaps are the players you see with gnomish battle chickens, or the players you see using flame caps or other niche consumables. Over time it’ll become another thing the top performing players will just do, and if you want a chance at competing with them you’ll have to do it as well.
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