Dual Spec.. please?

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

@Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers

If you truly believed that you wouldn’t be here arguing against it. You’d just give it up since you believe you’ve already won

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”

If we don’t speak up, it makes it look like dual spec is more wanted than it actually is.

[Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Solotov-benediction

this is going to change meta dynamics for raiding because people will now be expected to show up with 2 specs in the majority of guilds.

@Solotov-benediction

Im not going to sit here and regurgitate the same argument 15 times in the same thread.

No, but you expect other people to repeat the same arguments, or you don’t bother to read what they post. As often as someone has made the argument that guilds will force raiders to have two raid specs someone has pointed out that it could be easily solved by putting dual spec changes on a cool down and making it only usable in a major city.

[Riger-arugal]

@Solotov-benediction

And to elaborate more, this is going to change meta dynamics for raiding because people will now be expected to show up with 2 specs in the majority of guilds.

I was in a pretty sweaty guild during the early part of WoTLK but I clearly remember this happening. My Lock was required to spec for trash and then a second spec for bosses. Even with dual spec I still needed to pay 50g to respec for PvP.

[Cheloria-akama]

yes we need this

[Kerpz-moon-guard]

why do people keep asking for stuff not in the game

[Riger-arugal]

@Kanshu-westfall

"Just play how I want you to play.”

More accurately “just play how the Devs designed for you to play”.

Respec costs aren’t some random consequence. They’re a designed intended feature working entirely according to its design. The Devs who made the feature did it to make you think hard about changing your spec too often. In order that you feel invested in your primary role and to motivate you to seek out others using complimentary roles. It’s not something arbitrary.

[Megarune-frostwolf]

Yeah that’s mainly because most people that look at my posts always always just wanna make fun of my spelling errors and doing even acknowledge what I’m saying.

[Megarune-frostwolf]

Again I keep saying it eventually we got same faction battlegrounds so I’m gonna keep trying

[Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers]

@Kerpz-moon-guard

why do people keep asking for stuff not in the gam

One reason might be that the devs announced TBC would not be no changes and they asked players for feedback on the changes they’d like to see in the game.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Aw yes, pro dual specs favorite fallacy argument.

“Blizzard said they will be doing some changes, so they have to do my changes because I want it!”

[Fasc-atiesh]

@Solotov-benediction

who said anything about raiding? i said viable specs. Period

We were talking about raiding…

Never mind. You’re not properly equipped for this conversation.

[Cptmoregains-westfall]

Blizz quote explaining dual Spec isn’t being added from 2007.

@Riger-arugal

Also, I wanted to point out that the argument about people respeccing for Arena teams makes the assumption that everyone is somehow running in one and thus needs multiple respecs. This is not true. Not everyone is respeccing between PvE and PvP and it’s not a majority of players that need to.

Is anybody going to acknowledge how blizz gave a middle finger to pvp’ers when they said they’re not adding dual spec back in the day.

“Yea we understand respeccing for arenas seems like a problem that only affects pvp’ers and curbs pvp participation, but the majority of players don’t pvp anyways so it doesn’t matter.”

And then the same person that made the original post eventually explains that dual spec is being added to allow players to swap between pvp and pve more easily.

More people participating in pvp is always a good thing. Dual spec let’s more people pvp without scheduling all of their arena sessions around raid times to avoid having to respec 4+ times a week.

To the people who do not pvp, you’re not having to deal with the issue that dual spec was introduced to solve. If you’re scared that dual spec will fundamentally alter how you pve, then maybe a pvp/pve dual spec is the answer.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Riger-arugal

@Kanshu-westfall

"Just play how I want you to play.”

More accurately “just play how the Devs designed for you to play”.

Respec costs aren’t some random consequence. They’re a designed intended feature working entirely according to its design. The Devs who made the feature did it to make you think hard about changing your spec too often. In order that you feel invested in your primary role and to motivate you to seek out others using complimentary roles. It’s not something arbitrary.

Right and like a lot of the original design intent it simply didn’t work out very well. Hence why dual spec was added, and why we’re seeing the exact same problems lack of dual spec caused back in the day again in TBC Classic.

Based on the logic that the original design was perfect and had zero room for improvement why aren’t you still just playing vanilla?

[Solotov-benediction]

@Ziryus-pagle

So your sole argument is that it might be used in raids, no duh no one has said it would never be used in raids.

@Solotov-benediction

Its gonna remove a lot more people from regularly daily quests because needing to complete that conetnt to pay for respecs isnt going to be there anymore. Thus removing more people from the daily equation of heroics and dungeon farming.

reading comprehension isnt your best trait

[Arielba-sulfuras]

no, that is not what he said at all.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

you don’t have arguments. you have “i want it i want it i want it”.

[Arielba-sulfuras]

@Riger-arugal

Even with dual spec I still needed to pay 50g to respec for PvP

and that’s the ultimate irony of dual spec that these dummies just don’t understand lol

[Riger-arugal]

@Cptmoregains-westfall

Is anybody going to acknowledge how blizz gave a middle finger to pvp’ers when they said they’re not adding dual spec back in the day.

I agree there, Bliz basically just said “we don’t care about PvP” as their reason back then. I don’t accept that reason for today’s game. Thus my support for a PvP arena only spec.

[Solotov-benediction]

@Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers

No, but you expect other people to repeat the same arguments,

No i dont. I already know the arguments FOR dual spec. I dont agree with them and ive posted why. Simple

@Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers

or you don’t bother to read what they post.

Yes i do the arguments are:

• Dual spec will help with player participation in all facets of the game - I disagree due to the fact that once people get dual spec they wont need to run heroic content anymore. No need for gold farming. No need to complete those heroic dailies. Thus removing people from the content people want more participation in.

• Dual spec is a barrier preventing me from playing other parts of the game - No its just preventing you from playing in the most optimal spec at all times. If your time is limited you find a middle ground. Find a hybrid spec. Slowly level a second class. Do something else. The game doesnt need to change a core mechanic because players are A. lazy or B. have time constraints. We all have time constraints.

• Dual spec should be in TBC because it was in WOTLK and it “worked” - Sure there were a ton of features that got added on later in the game that worked at those times. Theres no saying that it will automatically “work” in TBC and not drastically change things.

Im sure there are more arguments i didnt cover but thats the gist of people wanting it.

@Feywaif-bloodsail-buccaneers

that it could be easily solved by putting dual spec changes on a cool down and making it only usable in a major city.

I mean sure that could “solve the problem of adding dual spec” under the assumption that THAT is the ONLY problem that arises.

@Solotov-benediction

Pretty sure rogue had at least 4-5 viable talent builds that played very differently in classic. And im pretty sure that carried over into TBC though many of them are not “bis” they are absolute viable and can change up a class when you get tired of the cookie cutter.

Mages even had viable arcane builds in both classic and TBC

Hunters had a few builds outside marksmen in Classic. Hell i even saw people pull off a melee hunter build in classic.

@Solotov-benediction

Mad about lack of variety in builds. Sure there are/were still set it stone BIS builds for everything. But if i wanna do a Dual wield mortal strike build with flurry and sword spec in tbc i fkn can

@Fasc-atiesh

@Solotov-benediction

They arent even talent trees anymore. Its a watered down version of what they used to be where you only have 3 choices to pick from across 8-10 rows. And most of the time 1 of the choices in said row is useless.

So you’re mad about… them not being literal flowchart style trees?

Also how are they watered down? The talents you pick even in MoP were miles ahead in terms of power and skill expression compared to what we got in Cata, which were themselves much more powerful and packed with changes and scaling compared to Wrath. If the Retail talents were like picking between Mangle (as seen on TBC), LotP, and Primal Tenacity, then I’d take your meaning… but instead is more like:

1. Take Super Mangle - Your Mangle now does X, Y, and Z in addition to its usual effects
2. Take Rend and Tear - Your Bleed tics have a chance to instantly reset the CD on X, Y, and Z
3. Take Berserk - You now have a huge offensive CD that makes you just murder everything

So you have passive and reliable (1), proc heavy and bursty (2), controlled mega burst but big CD (3). Sure, there are clear winners and losers on various content, or one is simply undertuned (or overtuned), but this all beats the hell out of sinking 5-10 levels worth of talent points into 5% crit and 10% armor.

@Fasc-atiesh

@Solotov-benediction

Classes all feeling relatively the same. No real talent loadout just some bland screen with 8-10 “talent” choices on it. Mindless content thats easy to complete (aside from raiding). LFD, no communication between players. No sense of server familiarity because every sever is just cross platform so you rarely see the same people.

• Diff classes/same feel: My last iteration of Retail was WoD and none of my characters played the same so this requires a lot more specifics.
• Talent trees: This is just telling me that there is a different UI, not how the old trees (which ones? TBC era? Wrath era? Cata?) were better than the new trees.
• Mindless content: Have you played at all in Classic or TBCC? This seems hilarious in the face of mindless questing with no real challenge, the fact that so many of us spam ran dungeons to level up and acquire rep, sometimes while 3-4 levels below the mobs, and minimal challenge outside of raiding. So if Retail also has easy questing, simple fetch/kill goals, resource acquisition, etc, then the formula hasn’t changed much since Vanilla.
• Lack of chat in LFD: This is entirely on players. I did Heroic SLabs last night with guildies and we chatted like crazy on Discord. I did Heroic Ramps earlier with 3 PuGs and outside of declaring marks at the start of the run, no one said anything, including the guildie and I. I’ve made RealID buddies via LFR/LFD. Some people really aren’t very social, but this is going to be very apparent when the content is easy and/or has little down time. If I have to drink a lot between pulls, chatting is bound to happen, we have time to do so. If I’m chain pulling and no one needs to stop and it is easy enough… which most dungeons are even in TBCC… people aren’t going to say much.
• Lack of familiarity: Unless you play on a small TBCC server, you feel like this already. Whether on a big Retail server like Mal’ganis, or Classic’s Fairbanks, or my current TBCC server of Atiesh, I see guilds I’ve never heard of all the time. The only familiarity I see are a few common crafters plying their trade in chat, and the half dozen or so trolls constantly bickering about stupidity.

So taken together, you’re not really selling me on Retail being any kind of big-bad-problem. All the problems you listed are either completely unsubstantiated (classes and talents) or already present in Classic and TBCC servers and content.

If this is all you have, Retail is already here.

@Fasc-atiesh

We were talking about raiding…

Never mind. You’re not properly equipped for this conversation.

Show me WHERE in this conversation i said “THERE ARE 4-5 VIABLE RAIDING SPECS” or that the conversation was ONLY about raiding and their respective specs

[Geneharrison-azuresong]

@Fasc-atiesh

@Geneharrison-azuresong

Exactly. You just want the game to be made easier for you.

I want the game made easier for everyone, not just me.

Fasc: TBC content is so easy its a joke.
Also Fasc: I want the game made easier.