Don’t forget they are saying the 2007 quote from the blue post that is against dual spec has no bearing on today’s game because it’s 2021.
Somehow 1 year makes all the difference to them, as if there was a design goal change between those 2 quotes…
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Exactly, that’s why we can recognize that some changes can be positive. There was an imbalance, TBC design heavily prioritized balance, even though in many cases it failed to achieve it, and therefore a beneficial change happened.
When I read “there needs to be a reason besides want to make a change” that’s kind of the impression I get. TBC changes didn’t just pander to public opinion.
The issue of course is that Blizzard has long abandoned that. Nethaera bluntly telling the playerbase “no” like that is such an ancient relic at this point. I could never imagine a current Blizzard CM addressing players like that.
Even Ghostcrawler’s opinion is worthless now as he’s not employed by Blizzard anymore.
I’d largely agree with that.
To my mind the argument hinges on whether the claimed benefits are “real”. Whether the feature will add the benefits people advocating it say it will. I’m not convinced it will on the basis that I don’t think it was all that successful when it was introduced, and I think TBC is less conducive to it being successful on account of having less questing and end game content by default (relying more on grinds) and on the basis that there were far more class and spec niches baked into the TBC game.
Well put, I love the grind, I enjoy farming for stuff so yeah it might not be a good example of the average player.
Warriors have enraged regeneration - increases healing from bloodthirst by 20% while also reducing damage taken by 30%. Bloodthirst also heals for 5% of your hp instead of the useless 50 it used to do and 75 or 100 it got increased to in TBC
Mages got conflagerate - instead of dying you get brought to 35% hp (similar to cheat death)
Hunters got a self heal on a 2 minute cooldown that allows them to heal for 30% of their max hp instantly (Exhilarate)
Warlocks got a 40% damage reduction ability similar to the one DKs have. On top of the healthstone, siphon life, and drain life they already had for sustain in combat they got more
Rogues got a 30 second cooldown drink that healed them for 20% of their max hp over 4 seconds.
These are the types of “homogenization” changes im talking about. 5 DPS classes that get self heals because blizzard couldnt think of more creative ways to make classes different so they made them more the same
And if you think
If you think healing 150 hp every 6 seconds or the health you gain from blood craze after getting crit in Vanilla is considered “being able to self heal” thats the most delusional statement youve said yet. That means basically anyone with a crusader enchant is “self healing”
Mad about lack of variety in builds. Sure there are/were still set it stone BIS builds for everything. But if i wanna do a Dual wield mortal strike build with flurry and sword spec in tbc i fkn can
Who said anything about stress. I just said using your brain.
Tanking is way more involved in TBC than it is in BFA lol you cant even remotely compare. Ive done both and can tell you i have WAY more to do on a warrior in TBC than just spam 2 aoe abilities and death strike
Tell that to the countless groups that fail in heroic AC for exmaple that dont know to focus the mind control people first. Or break CCd enemies and cause wipes all the time
Youre gonna have to explain what you mean because me saying
“Popularity does not equate to a better game”
and
“the reason retail is the way it is”
Is because the “popular” idea and the constant need to streamline every single aspect as made the game a shell of its former self
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That is stressful for him it seems…
It sounds like your expectation is proof. I think this is an impossible standard for your opposition to achieve.
In my opinion, there’s evidence of a real benefit because people are saying that they will personally try other aspects of the game if they have dual spec. I don’t know how many people that will be, but there’s no denying there is some benefit to be had there. Maybe they’ll try it and give up when they realized it wasn’t the 50g that was keeping them away after all. Even still, they tried. That’s not nothing.
The issue for me is the change is heavy handed. Maybe that benefit could be achieved in a simpler and less intrusive way.
This makes no sense. You say “the reason retail is the way it is” like someone knows what you’re talking about. I told you it’s popular. That’s the way it is. You assume that it’s not “better” than WoW Classic but you haven’t explained why.
Some people like one or the other but some people play both.
What do you mean by “the reason retail is the way it is.”
The way retail is is apparently just fine for a whole lot of people.
Well that’s the thing, not everyone does or should enjoy exactly the same things.
For people who don’t like dual spec, that’s fine, someone else using it doesn’t stop you from doing what you enjoy.
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Not proof, just convincing evidence. Currently, I’m not convinced by the claims of those who are strongly invested in one side of the argument.
This is actually close to my position. I do support a specific Arena spec for instance as I think this is a much smaller less intrusive change with stronger claim to benefit. I think there is a good possibility that such a change would positively impact participation. PVPers tend to play differently to PVEers and they are less likely to grind stuff. The rulesets between PVE and PVP are already distinct such that this change will not bleed into other areas of the game.
My problem with simply lifting the WOTLK dual spec feature and inserting it into TBC is that it didn’t fully achieve what it set out to achieve in WoTLK and TBC is far less well adapted to such a feature. It’s a big enough change that I feel like the risk of unintended consequences is quite high. Especially in relation to content pacing in PVE. I don’t think we can expect the feature to deliver anything better than it did in WoTLK, and there is a good chance it will deliver a lot less.
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PvP activities also tend to make absolutely no gold. Maybe there could be a small chance you loot some terocone or mana thistle from an enemy in a battleground. Or maybe an actually good idea 
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If you truly believed that you wouldn’t be here arguing against it. You’d just give it up since you believe you’ve already won
And thats fine. They can keep playing it. I think its safe to say theres not a large population of cross over between classic and retail. Most people play one or the other.
If you play retail thats fine. But i dont and i dont want the version of the game that i play to resemble the version you play
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A huge portion of the fans that were asking for classic were asking for dual spec when original vanilla and BC were active.
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Warriors aren’t a DPS class, they’re a hybrid.
And literally every new class had plenty of self-healing (or even actual healing like with Monks)… so “has a heal” is hardly anything special. It isn’t like any of the aforementioned healing skills could compare to the 7-8 skills of an actual Healer.
Ferals have had access to Healing the same as Ret Paladins… it really isn’t all that game changing I assure you without making specific gear/talent choices.
We’ve never had this.
You don’t need your brain to Tank most content.
Having OPTIONS that don’t matter much on a Warrior in 95% of situations doesn’t make it involved or interesting.
You could drop half your buttons and still be fine in TBCC.
95% can exclude Heroic Arc, LOL.
Based on what?
It does already in several ways. So, seems to me it doesn’t matter what you want since you’ll play the game anyway.
The spec that got the self healing was the DPS spec so…
My point exactly
Druids, paladins, (and later dks and monks) are true hybrid class. Each cant tank, heal, or dps
Pretty sure rogue had at least 4-5 viable talent builds that played very differently in classic. And im pretty sure that carried over into TBC though many of them are not “bis” they are absolute viable and can change up a class when you get tired of the cookie cutter.
Mages even had viable arcane builds in both classic and TBC
Hunters had a few builds outside marksmen in Classic. Hell i even saw people pull off a melee hunter build in classic.
Warrior tanking requirements in TBC:
Shield block
Revenge
Sunder
Taunt
Heroic strike
Thunderclap
Stance swap
Demo shout
Commanding shout
Blood Rage
And id say thats bare minimum
BFA DK Tanking Ability requirements:
Blood Boil
Death and Decay
Heart Strike
Death strike
…
…
Thats it
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Based on the fact that most people are typically online in one or the other. Also the playerbase is like 1/6 of retails playerbase so unless literally only 400k of the 2-3M daily players retail has are the wow classic players. Its statistically logical to assume that theres a larger population that game back and plays strictly only wow classic. I highly doubt im the only one with my mindset or the minority on the wow classic servers
In what ways explain?
Yep, this is why it’s important for people who don’t want this change to keep arguing on the forums. Jump into the fray every now and then and beat your head against a wall. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind, but you at least continue to make your presence known.
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Sorry, but there’s nothing here that shows me this is anything other than you just speculating.
A boost to level 58 which comes with a free starter mount, gear and gold. Also a deluxe package that comes with a luxury mount.