That just means you didn’t want to actually do the content you would have respected for to begin with.
Nope.
I find it very amusing that the kinds of folks that insist on a world full of shades of gray and other subjective tripe are suddenly so doggedly rigid.
It is possible to want to do something and be dissuaded from doing that thing because of an obstacle you don’t want to deal with. The want doesn’t go away. I get this is super advanced and all…
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I’m sorry that tbcc isn’t designed to cater specifically to your personal wants, but that doesn’t mean it needs to be changed just because you aren’t interested enough in other aspects of the game to spend 50g and respec. It just means tbcc might not be the game for you.
That’s not a bad thing either, there are plenty of other games out there for you to play, heck give retail a try, since you seem hellbent on convenience that’s likely the game for you. Easy grouping, easy content, free spec swapping, no socialization needed to clear 95% of the content. Sounds like the perfect game your you based on your complaints about tbcc.
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I don’t think that’s a great way of putting it. It’s not a single topic issue. It’s the entire philosophy of this project. How players approach the experience, what they expect from the game. This particular topic is merely a symptom of the greater problem (if you want to call it a problem). And that is simply some players aren’t able to set aside their Retail mindset, or disregard conveniences they’ve grown accustomed to and accept that TBC worked very differently.
So many posters here say it’s not a matter of money, but of convenience. The thing is the TBC devs WANTED that inconvenience. They wanted the choice to matter. They wanted it to be somewhat of a pain to alter that choice. That’s intentional design. It’s not a bug, it’s not a limitation of the technology back then. So what threads like this are asking for is to disregard a basic design philosophy for TBC.
Is that what a Classic server should be about? Is it just applying Modern design mentality to a 14 year old game? Where does that end? When do players stop asking for such things? This isn’t a dual spec issue. This is a player issue. This is a simple matter of players stepping back and realizing they’re playing a recreation of an old game. You choose to play that game, so accept how it was designed.
Of course it doesn’t help Blizz has thrown some of that authenticity away already, and basically said they wanted to change it to appeal to the modern player. Which they’ve botched horribly and now we’re left with this weird, mutated hybrid of a game that apparently pleases no one. It’s why authenticity was always the best choice. You’ll get a million variations on what each player regards as good changes or bad changes. But authenticity is not subjective.
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Naw, Devs said give feedback for changes since TBC is gone and TBCC is here to stay.
Naw, I like TBCC, but I’d like it better with Dual Spec. 
Asked.
And answered:
Therefore, people sticking to an authenticity argument are making quite a flawed mess of themselves.
Changes are coming, so it is only a matter of which changes make it in before the TBCC servers die their final death, and which do not. Dual Spec is very popular for a reason.
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Right, I’m not anti-dual spec out of some dislike for dual spec specifically. I’m pro faithful recreation which happens to make me anti-dual spec.
OK a couple things one You can’t accuse us of is of the game ending up in the state it’s currently in OK it’s currently in
There’s a huge other list of changes that happened aside from dual speck dual speck was not the thing that killed World of Warcraft.
Its was Gear score lfd and lfr Is once those things became accepted Like it or not people became more toxic.
The social aspect was essentially killed And People started to care more and more about midmaxine and less and less about having fun.
On top of that do remember at the time we didn’t know these things would be the tombstone on paper Heck even the death wing fight sounded good.
Now anyone that’s done that fight knows it was absolutely horrible and extremely boring half the time but on paper it sounded cool.
On top of that it wasn’t just the changes that were made to the game that well put retail in the spot it’s in it’s the gaming culture as a whole like it or not.
People draw up they have kids We’re not asking for something insane like Is the automatic lfd of lfr.
We’re asking For duel speck to make it easier to try different things So I can jump into PVP.
So I can have an off speck There is nothing wrong with that it does not destroy the core of the game.
It does not turn tbc in to Shadowlands, Or wrath.
Is plain and simple
I don’t agree with this at all There’s enough barrier to entry to both sides of that coin You have to get a separate gear set together like it or not.
And there is too much of a difference in variance between Is specs that are good for PVE and pvp Not everything has to be super important sometimes you just want AI don’t know do something for fun to try it.
And that barrier to entry is high enough as is cause you want us to get it happened exactly what we’re seeing And I’m gonna compare this by the way to Condoit energy And covenant switching.
And I also kind of find a very humorous That you’re partially using the very same argument That The game director used to justify For not getting rid of conduit energy.
Is and making covenance with you Is instant without cost Is the exact arguments you’re using now is the same one hes using.
Not the same words but the same argument There should not be a barrier to entry that high for everything.
Getting a starter set Is weather be for pvp or pve Is is hard enough as it is there doesn’t need to be a respect cost every single time you want to try something different.
And there’s the difference between farming consumables And having to pay for respect on top of it.
Which actually doesn’t really matter because you’re not going to buy consumables for pvp Because guess what all consumables are unusable in arena.
So yeah
#nochanges is at least an honest position compared to the people making up blatant lies about dual spec.
It might have already long been abandoned by blizzard but at least it’s honest.
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OK one Maybe that is the case back in the day however it depends on what we’re talking about here because because I would make an argument that not everything is such a hard solid design choice.
For example Would you think that drums would have been something good to leave in the whole profession switching with Joel crafting and enchanting.
Is the way arena originally worked with no MMR system and it was all based on battle groups.
None of these things would have been good for the game the same thing I would make an argument that #NoChanges Was terrible for classic spell batching anyone.
His whirled buffs await all things hated On top of that I’ll say it the rainforeteen system was garbage.
My point is not everything that was originally there was Is as far as word ends for me it ends at dual speck.
Is that’s the only retail ask change I want in the game why because it gives players choice I would not be for Try speck
The only other thing I would say is maybe implement the group finder that they put in the legion It’s not the original one in that they put in now because quite frankly I know about you but I have never seen anyone that uses it.
Aside from that nothing else needs to be added that’s where it ends for me
So basically you’re saying the only reason that you don’t want dual speck is because it wasn’t there originally.
So even though you agree that it would make the Is game better you still don’t want it just because it wasn’t there in the 1st place OK.
I think faithful recreation is a step back from strict #nochanges. I don’t need it to be exactly the same, it’s enough for them to do the best they can.
But even still, Blizzard’s stance can change. It still won’t change mine. I’m a paying customer and so are you. The only thing we know for sure is that Blizzard is going to try to keep as many subscribers as they can.
No, that couldn’t be further from what I’m saying.
There are a lot of features in WoTLK that were built to address “problems” with TBC. Every design approach is a two edged sword and causes benefits and problems. And in a way every new expansion seeks to address the “problems” of the the last but introduces its own set of tradeoffs.
Dual spec was argued for back in original TBC, and the dev team at the time rejected changes to respeccing, including dual speccing and reduction in cost. They also gave reasons why. The team were different to the WoTLK team and had different design priorities.
What I don’t like about this discussion is that it is being pushed by people that have a strong and almost fundamentalist preference for the game design priorities of WoTLK and they view TBCs design as fundamentally inferior. However, there are a lot of people who didn’t prefer WoTLKs “fixes” and who preferred the way TBC was designed. This is their time - it’s TBC classic, not WoTLK classic.
By all means suggest changes to TBCC that enhance its features, but literally taking a position that is antagonistic to the original development teams vision for the game is disrespectful to the whole idea.
You have demonstrated why the new dev team that came in to build WoTLK thought Dual Spec would be good but you fail to acknowledge why their predecessors didn’t. They didn’t reduce the cost of respecs or add dual spec, by design, they made that trade off because that’s how they wanted the game to play, not because it was a bug, or because they didn’t know how to “fix it”.
Nethaera April 2007: https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/98646792-we-need-free-respecs-or-spec-swapping/
This has been addressed many times before and I have to tell you, the answer is still “no” to both for the same reasons we’ve always given. There should be real investment into choosing a spec and reducing the cost or making it easy to do simple swaps would make the whole purpose moot.
You’re assuming a bit much here. Your assumption is that we haven’t asked this question many times before or even more recently. I’m not mouthing off or giving cliche’d responses. I’m giving you the straight answer that the answer is still, “no”. I’m not going to say it’s under consideration or that I’m going to ask them again about it when we have asked, it’s not under consideration right now and it’s not changing from the way it is currently. The costs are deemed reasonable.
Also, I wanted to point out that the argument about people respeccing for Arena teams makes the assumption that everyone is somehow running in one and thus needs multiple respecs. This is not true. Not everyone is respeccing between PvE and PvP and it’s not a majority of players that need to.
I gave a clear and direct answer on this based on recent discussions. You can believe that as you wish
I mean people say the community has changed but we are making the exact same arguments for the exact same things now as we did then … and the remedy is the same - wait for the expansion that more fully encapsulates your idea of a good game. If we come to discussions about TBCC changes with the bias that WoTLKs design approach was fundamentally better then we end up treating the whole TBCC experiment as an extended WoTLKC prepatch. Not exactly fair to those who came to this with a TBC preference and don’t treat this as the waiting room for WoTLKC.
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This is the lie that you guys keep spouting. The remedy is not limited to waiting for the next expansion.
That’s the entire point of some changes. We don’t have to wait.
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I think you’ve put the position forward that people don’t engage as much with the game as they otherwise would rather strongly. Though I’m still not convinced.
It really comes down to the idea of whether grinds are “content” and whether the grindy stuff increases game play time or decreases it.
If I’m honest I think there are some people that will initially play a bit more. But this will be like a sugar hit I think and will be short lived. Like it or not the grindy stuff elongates game life. While some will just “raid log” and pay for people to do the grinds for them many won’t and will (as you do) do the grind to access a variety of less grindy stuff.
The thing that stops me jumping on board with your position is that - you are a poor sample of the people you’re trying to represent. You actually are willing to grind gold for respecs. It’s a bit of a chicken and egg thing, is the reason you do the pvp and the pve and engage with the game more due to you having more gold for respecs, or do you have more gold for respecs because you as a player are more engaged in the game and play it more?
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This boils down to
“I like cake, I don’t care if you like pie, I demand this bakery make cake instead of pie because I want it!”
Stop looking for your cake in a pie shop, go look elsewhere if you don’t want tbc gameplay and design in tbcc.
Since you lot bring up how much better private servers did in recreating tbcc because they added dual spec, then GO PLAY THERE.
Or do the legal thing and WAIT for wotlkc.
Or find another game to play.
Stop trying to turn a pie into cake just because you prefer cake, other people like pie, stop trying to take that away from them.
Nope. If you can’t stop trying to analogize my position (badly and wrongly), I won’t stop treating you like a bad troll.
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Stop trying to replace my pie with cake.
You weren’t promised pie of a specific flavor and crust from the past, and the baker said they’d change the filling, add toppings, and serve extras if there was enough call for it.
/thread
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And some changes are fine, but the dual spec argument is almost ideological and the people arguing for it are almost making the claim that TBC was inferior to WoTLK and therefore we should adapt it to TBC with WoTLK features.
We’re not just talking about things not having the desired effect and therefore being improved, rather we are talking about being opposed to the desired effect and trying to impose a different design objective in its place. #somechanges is thus being interpreted as a blank cheque to remaking TBC with WoTLKs design goals. That to me is out of scope for TBCC with #somechanges. Some, not all.
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