The master of ad-hominems speaks. There was someone complaining about posts that were adversely speaking of Dual Spec being deleted:
That’s because of the conduct of those posters. I’m responding to the brazen personal attacks by Dual Spec posters by being firm and uncaring of their opinions. Example:
Can you explain how it will ruin it for you? Do you have enough self awareness and insight to articulate the reasons why it will be ruined or are you just posturing and chest thumping?
Do you remember when they announced TBC Classic? Do you remember how excited people were to travel from Shatt to Capital cities to respec? Do you remember how much fun it was your first time out in the world realizing you were the wrong spec and having to go back to a capital city in order to fix it? Remember how awesome it is for a tank to forget they’re still MS spec and having to go respec mid raid? So much enjoyment!
I know my Discord on a Friday night is thumping with the people hoping on asking for ports to visit the class trainers. I can’t remember the last time the Class trainers weren’t surrounded by players enjoying themselves.
It would ruin it for me because it removes a key aspect of character management that contributes to my enjoyment of the expansion in terms of everything I consider when I spec my character, and what everyone else around me has to consider, up to and including my raid teams or BG groups.
That special, unique dynamic only exists in a world where portions of people are deterred from respeccing all the time.
Honestly, this entire debate doesn’t even apply to people who actually play the game. If you actually play the game you’d have the money to respec on a whim easily at any point. You’re acting like respeccing isn’t possible without dual spec or something.
Literally the last several thousands of gold I’ve made have been without killing a single mob (just alchemy/fishing/cooking stuff).
Right now, respeccing demands something of you. If you can’t provide what it demands, then you simply aren’t dedicated enough and that bleeds in to how you demonstrate yourself as a player. There’s so many nuanced aspects here like this for example.
There are very few people who are aggressive at the first sign of no. And those people exist on both sides of the question. You’ve read the threads and know that most people weren’t aggressive at the first sign of no but after repeated provocations. This is another lie you’re telling
So why do you have such an issue with an optional system that you don’t have to participate in?
Why does your, essentially, Role Playing class fantasy trump the hundreds of thousands of players that don’t engage in RP and just play the game for the gameplay not the immersion?
Well I could ask you this same question about LFD.
The answer is that anyone having access to dual spec affects everyone.
I could say, “Well just don’t use LFD if you don’t like it, form your own groups and run there”.
We all know how that goes.
That’s a separate topic and I have an entirely different opinion on the LFD tool depending on implementation as well as the LFR tool.
Please stay on topic.
Also let’s not make the mistake of painting a scenario where people who don’t want dual spec are some kind of extremely sparse minority. I’m not the only one who has voiced “no” against it, nor will I be the last.
Even if it’s 60/40 in favor of dual spec, that still isn’t a good reason to hamfistedly shove it in the game, and just stick the finger to that 40%, you know that isn’t how Blizzard works.
Good job. You got rid of the parts that were false and stuck to the parts that were true. I agree with your statement.
It is one of the better dual spec arguments, but that said it is a weak argument. It can be rephrased to “pander to laziness.” Alone I feel that isn’t enough for blizz to warrant.
Outcry for dual spec is nothing like it was in original TBC. Tons of new threads daily to the point blizz had trouble keeping up.
Others have listed the negative effects of dual spec here. I have listed them in other threads. With so little positive for dual spec now and the negatives know I feel the chance it will be implemented in tbc is “slim to none.”
This is what I’m trying to get to the root of though.
If the system is optional then how does it impact those players?
The argument about “TBC integrity” can’t be used because we’re so far from the original TBC that I’m pretty sure Tigole would have euthanized it. It falls flat because people are still playing the game with all these change implemented but for some reason Dual Spec is going too far.
I want to find out “WHY” it is going too far.
I want to know, why an optional Quality of Life change that doesn’t impact gameplay mechanics is going too far, but the dozens of changes implemented already were okay, so much so that they’re still playing the game with those changes but threatening to leave if Dual Spec is implemented.
And lets be 100% honest. If people are currently playing this bastardized version of TBC there is no chance Dual Spec would actually cause them to leave, it’s all just posturing.
I am, it’s relevant.
Everyone has their own subjective venn diagram as to what constitutes changes that would be fine, or not fine. For you, dual spec lands in “fine”, for me it lands in “not fine”.
However? There’s probably a ton of similarities in our venn diagram. It just so happens that in this particular discussion on this particular feature, we have them placed differently.
This venn diagram differs between every person.
Because of that, “how things were” is, arguably, the most reliable guideline to go by…and that’s sort of the underpinning of “nochanges”.
You can continue to argue that nochanges is some kind of blind argument that ignores changes already made, but it’s not. We know that changes have gotten through, but when it comes to a yet implemented feature that we feel strongly about, we will still say no because according to the the only reliable guideline, it wasn’t in the game.
I simply disagree that because changes have already been made, that the concept of TBC integrity is now a non-factor or thrown out the window for future considered changes. That’s a fundamental disagreement that you have to recognize will exist between you and any other person who is against dual spec.
But why do you feel so strongly about this one in particular? That’s what I keep asking.
Given your reasons against it, if it is optional then it would have 0 impact on you. You just chose not to do it and continue to go to the class trainer and those that want to use it can.
It seems like what you’re really saying is that you’ll quit if others aren’t as inconvenienced as you and I don’t understand that.
Facts aren’t opinions and by the changes implemented by Blizzard the integrity of original TBC has been undermined. This isn’t an opinion it is a statement of fact.
You can’t alter something from it’s original state without compromising the integrity of it.
It would have an impact on me, it can’t possibly not have an impact on me. Everyone in the game having a flexibility that is available to them on-the-fly while engaging actively in activities, that never actually existed back then is a huge change to the gameplay dynamic, absolutely it is.
The “optional” argument doesn’t track for this reason.
Honestly, if this were a thread about LFD, I’d be just as strongly feeling about it. Name your next-expansion-feature. It would be the same. Dual spec isn’t special in that regard.
Look, you claim there is a large population that doesn’t want this but then say things like “Everyone” so which is it?
Is there a large population who feels like you and would choose not to engage with the dual spec or are you truly in the minority here?
By this logic you shouldn’t have an issue with literally turning TBCC upside down completely. Under this framework you’ve left TBCC to essentially become a different expansion entirely. You need to have some kind of guideline that limits what should and shouldn’t be possible.
If dual spec is in the game, everybody would have it. Obviously.
How would you even prove this?
bump until they make the only change that makes sense