Just make them usable by anyone so leatherworking isn’t a garbage profession and they actually have something to sell that people want to buy…
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lol. I appreciate your passion here.
TBF I was talking to 99% of the people here and not specifically you.
You’re literally clueless. Taking away drums of war doesnt make it closer to retail. It makes it closer to the actual classic experience when people didnt min/max everything.
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Yeah bro, taking things out of TBC makes it more like TBC.
You people are disgusting. Go ruin another game.
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There are a few who will do this, but the vast majority of people will use other trade skills.
I will retain my existing trade skills, drums are nice but you don’t need them to clear content and while chasing parses is really fun, its also kinda dumb in some ways.
Just my opinion and observations of the players I see from day today but I doubt most will go LW just for the drums.
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Just shutup and just let things happen.
God i’m so sick of every moron trying to control the direction of the game the way THEY want it.
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Fifth person uses AP/SP drum, so everyone needs LW in an optimized raid.
How many raids will be optimized to the degree of relevance?
I estimate the answer to that question is less than 1% of the raiding guilds will be optimized to a point where they have a real shot at competing for the top 10 guild parse slots at any point ever. Anything south of the top 10 guilds is kinda meaningless because more than likely they don’t have the ideal comp, they don’t have ideal professions usage, and so on.
Its cool to compete among friends, but really if your group is not ultra super serious and trying for the absolute be all end all of speed clears its all for nothing.
60 AP and 30 SP for 30 sec, once every 2 min, is well within (and beneath) the power gained from having another profession.
Flask of Pure Death is 80 SP.
Elixir of Major Shadowpower is 55 SP.
The Arcanist’s Stone trinket has 25 Hit Rating and gives 167 SP for 20 sec every 2 min, and that’s just a 5-man blue quality trinket.
This just… isn’t anything like maintaining a persistent 80 Haste Rating for the entire fight.
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Also it’s good to mention that drums is what?? 5% haste, but that’s not necessarily 5% more DPS.
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These aren’t BoP, you use them in addition to the AP/SP drum. Also note that the AP/SP drum applies to the whole group just like the haste drum. There’s nothing unique to another profession which compares, this will absolutely be meta.
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The point was the comparison. You’re arguing that it will be meta to have someone be LW so that they can provide a party-wide 30 SP buff, which is a fraction of the SP of a persistent consumable, a fraction of the SP available on a single piece of armor (not even epic), and it only has a 25% uptime at best?
Enchanting, arguably one of the weakest personal bonuses of the professions gives a permanent 24 SP. It is easy to compare 80 Haste Rating per person committing to LW against other professions, but 30 SP? If you wanted to gem for 80 Haste, you’d need 8 epic gems, but if you wanted to do the same for 30 SP, you’d only need 2 epic gems and 1 rare gem. It just isn’t even the same ballpark worth of stat value.
Crafting professions each have their own BoP perks that can easily justify not adding a paltry and anemic party-wide trinket proc, especially when SP becomes the slowest scaling stat as Hit/Crit/Haste take the front runner position.
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Nothing you said provides any evidence that the highest raid DPS option is not to have the fifth person take LW. All you’re saying is that the increase is small, but it’s still optimal. And from Classic we’ve learned that optimal comps and professions are what’s used at the top end.
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What I’m saying is that the personal DPS earned by a variety of classes from not having LW as their 2nd profession is likely to match or exceed the DPS earned from such a party-wide buff. I won’t have to make such a choice because LW was already my preferred profession because of the BoP items are absolutely better than the raiding and vendor options. That leaves me free to pick up Engineering for Sunwell goggles/grenades/sappers, JC for early epic gems and Sunwell era trinkets, Alchemy for Sunwell trinkets, or Enchanting for Ring enchants.
Other classes are going to be compelled to grab Tailoring (if you’re a caster) or Blacksmithing (if you need weapons).
I don’t have a full spreadsheet of all classes in TBC-era talents and I’m not going to bother yet, but it is simply not a foregone conclusion that the very weak SP/AP drums are going to dominate over the personal gains a 5th person can score from a different 2nd profession, and this is especially true when we’re in the Sunwell era and the DPS min/max actually matters the most.
This is the problem with your argument. The drum applies to 5 people, and there is no profession-specific benefit that is anywhere close to 5x the dps increase from the drum.
Plus, most of the profession-specific stuff is covered by the second profession. You can reroll enchanting every time you get a new ring for example (tryhards will 100% do this).
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and what was the next OP item everyone used in sunwell after drums?
how’s that layering going in classic?
It isn’t a problem, it just goes against your assumptions. Tailoring sets, BS weapons/armor, Engineering Goggles, and Alchemist stones necessitate staying the profession to use the items. 30 SP x 5 on a 25% uptime vs just a single DPS Warrior having access to Hard Khorium Battleplate for the unique 280 ArP, especially in the Sunwell era where stacking penetration/haste far far outstrips stacking SP it not a simple matter of dismissal “but 5 people vs 1”
If your class doesn’t need any of these, or their options are bad, then sure, fine, LW even if its only for the 30 SP or 60 AP is better than nothing. But the Sunwell era BoP items that necessitate having 350 of the profession to use aren’t a trivial thing.
And frankly I couldn’t care less about what kind of min/max people are going to pull in T4 and even T5 content.
This mattered substantially less in Wrath because all the crafting professions got nearly equivalent bonuses to one another. Engineering was a clear winner for DPS classes IIRC because of some of the trinket-like bonuses they got, but for Healers and Tanks you could go just about anything and get within <1% of each other, provided both professions were crafting.
I was LW/JC on my Druid and I want to say that was the pinnacle for Ferals that didn’t do DPS because the raw Stamina available was simply higher than anything else, largely due to the freedom given by Dragon’s Eyes. Plus I had super cheap leg enchants being the LW.