The difference is not having drums affects your party and raid. Not having engi, especially on a mage, is a non-issue. Not bringing drums for haste is just gimping yourself, and if you don’t care about that, then just know you are hurting others.
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Group-wise we were having 5 bloodlusts because we had 5 shamans. Blizzard change it so we could have different classes instead of 5 shamans.
They added cd to drums and gave the very same buff to Frost DKs and Enhacement shamans.
So, the drums were still there, with 100% uptime. You just weren’t drumming.
No, you are not hurting others. The game post 2.1 is quite easy and you can get through without drums. And even after. Maybe in Sunwell you will see a difference, but again, if you think Drums are required now, you are not clearing sunwell. I’m sorry.
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You could easily argue the same for not having WBs. You could, but guilds wanted you to have them and, again, you were helping the raid by getting them.
You’ll see a difference as early as Kara if you use drums and don’t.
If something exists that gives a performance boost, in this case drums, and you actively choose to not use it, then yes - you are gimping others.
My point isn’t about TBC being easy, it’s about being forced into a prof to provide the maximum performance gained which Blizz initially claimed to be changing, yet here we are.
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Until we have a guild clearing the entire tier 4 with just green gear and drums, we could argue that WB are as powerful as drums are. But they are not.
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You’re right! And that’s why classic has 0 shamans in raids instead of 8 because there’s no bloodlust, oh wait, we bring 8 shamans to raids BECAUSE OF TOTEMS. TBC wouldn’t change that, what world do you live in where all shamans do is cast bloodlust?
The issue with bloodlust in TBC is that shamans were swapped INTO a group with warlocks or hunters to drop bloodlust then swapped out. This is godawful game design, and blizzard knew that. So as soon as it became an issue (sunwell again), they fixed it. They realized that drums had the exact same problem and fixed them, otherwise they would have left them alone.
Also giving the buff the frost DKs and enhance shammies as part of a ROTATION is WAY better than having to get 20 people to grab LW. In fact, it’s also better because they don’t have to gather mats / pay for it AND they balanced the game around it, which they never did for drum stacking.
Thanks for pointing out that drums isn’t the problem.
Good. That is WoTLK. In TBC you can drum, your you may not drum. It is up to you decide your gameplay, not someone else.
But again, if you wanna play for parses, on a top guild that aim for the best, then why are you complaining at all about Drums?
Again, you can’t have it both ways.
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After seeing what became of classic, no.
I don’t want to do this again.
But at a certain point, its wanting these types of changes that led to the retail professions that feel completely worthless unless you want herb/alchy for gold and consumes.
I supported a change to drums, but lol this is a wonky one. Now i feel like refusing to go LW just on principle.
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In your T2 gear, I can guarantee you, that you don’t need LW to get by TBC more than you need Engineering (crafted helm, pre-bis) and your offhand weapon (Blacksmith - swordsmith).
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Said nothing about drums here, I’m literally just saying that people bring shamans for totems. They could remove bloodlust and you’d still see 5 shamans in every raid, this isn’t a problem by any means its just how totems work. Has bugger all to do with drums though.
You literally take everything out of context. WoTLK balance has nothing to do with TBC, yes, but the original point was that drums and lust were changed in pre-patch, before DKs. It got changed in pre-patch specifically because it wasn’t an issue until sunwell, and when blizz figured out it was an issue it was already too late to fix AND they had to balance sunwell, because M’uru was eating everyones lunch so severly nerfing the DPS of these raid groups had to be delayed. If we look at it now, with raiders asking for harder encounters, it makes sense for blizzard to give us the drum change earlier this time, as it’s unnecessary.
Also, you seriously don’t understand raiding guilds. Parses are a bi-product of high level raiding, if you want to join a good guild, they’re going to require the best of the best, which is why they will also have loads of good parses, because they’re requiring players play to the best of their ability from the get go.
Nah mate, WoTLK had already fixed this by makign it so that dropping enchanting/tailoring/w/e meant you also lost the benefit of the ring enchants, the cape enchants etc. This is the kind of fix we need, because it’s an unintended design flaw (that the TBC team ended up fixing in WoTLK, it was still the same team at that point), but what happened to retail professions (WoD) was just… tragic.
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The pre-patch is already WoTLK. Talents. Raid-wide talents. overly nerfed bosses.
It was a change of concept.
People willing to play on those guilds are ok with having LW. You seem to not be ok with that.
Either you don’t have what it takes or you want to have it both ways.
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What happened to retail professions was precisely this. Folks complained because there was inherent power advantages to having maxed professions (and some were better for certain classes than others.)
So they were all neutered.
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I agree a lot of people wining bout drums just don’t like doing well, or are pretending that the reason there doo doo butter is a buff rotation and not a mechanical one.
“In my t2 gear.” has nothing to do with Burning Crusade. This is the gear I put on after I stopped raiding because its my favorite Rogue set from classic. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones Mr. hide behind level 11 alt.
Engi goggles weren’t in the game at launch 
following how they handled profession recipes in classic I don’t think we should expect it to be there for TBC classic either.
Dawg, they were ruined in WoD. The complaint that getting the benefit from ring enchants when you ditch enchanting is entirely valid. They changed professions so that all of them were good in WoTLK to the point where you didn’t HAVE to have any one profession (so long as you picked 2 crafting professions, that is).
Don’t bring WoDs garbage adjustment into this, because the team that made WoD wasn’t the team that made TBC nor did they understand what makes a MMO an MMO. I’m talking about getting enchanting adjusted so people don’t cheese it, literally nothing to do with WoD.
They will be in TBC Classic.
No, people who are willing to play with those guilds just want to play with their guild. They dont WANT to roll LW on their locks, but they’d rather do that than leave their guild or they simply know that most good guilds would require it. Also, I’m a healer. I don’t give a damn about parses. I wont be using drums until phase 5. Doesn’t mean I can’t speak out against bad design decisions.
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Well, then just play with them without LW.
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