Nice job with the Tinnitus change, when is Bloodlust getting the same treatment?
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Hopefully not during TBC - as bloodlust is somewhat of a core feature to the shammy class during TBC. You bring multiple shamans to the raid to cycle BLs on the dps groups which allows each spec of the shammy to be more easily represented in the raid teams. After some other changes (MH for BS weps and the Arena requirements) Ench specifically will find it even more difficult to find a raid spot without bringing another BL to the team.
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The downside, it leads to stacking all your Bloodlust in one group and denies other groups from parsing. I still think having it group specific is good, but a 5 minute debuff that prevents 4 people from being the only ones to benefit on the majority of encounters would be nice. Obviously it’s a personal preference, but even in casual groups, meta chasing and min/max culture creeps its way in.
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Game isn’t getting balance changes around parsing. If you want to parse, you use parse strats.
You’d be better off asking WCL to make a second category for 2 or less bloodlusts.
They quite literally just changed profession balance that affects parsing. I dunno if the WCL question holds as much value with the drums change, but I understand why people don’t want the change. The content is going to be cleared, even by groups with minimal or no lust though. You’d still be catering to a far more niche crew by not adding a dated effect.
Right, but they didn’t change drums because of parsing. They changed drums because they felt the pressure to grab leatherworking was too strong.
Adding sated for bloodlust just straight up nerfs shaman, wasn’t in TBC, removes an existing strategy element, has PvP implications, and most importantly is not really a balance concern- you’re getting the same number of bloodlusts with or without sated. And the most convincing argument that I’ve seen presented is… I don’t want to have to swap groups to parse.
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Out of game personal e-peen measurements are no reason to change a core class feature. Honestly, i wish blizzard would deny all access to player data and the API just to kill this mentality.
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The sated buff won’t really change this. It just means that each group gets it once instead of one group getting it like 5 times. And I think you’ll still want 5 shaman in the raid, one for each group, for both bloodlust and totems.
If it won’t change that, why do this change?
5 bloodlusts is as powerful as 5 bloodlusts, you’re just removing player choice about who gets them.
It’s not a huge deal, IMO. But I don’t think constantly swapping shamans to the top DPS group throughout fights was intended, which is why they added the sated buff later. It’s basically a nerf to the hunter (or warlock) group, and a buff to everyone else.
So as it currently is, the damage meter for bosses will look something like this for a raid of equally skilled players…
Hunter 1 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Hunter 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Hunter 3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Warlock 1 ---------------------------------------------->
Warlock 2 ------------------------------------------->
Warlock 3 ----------------------------------------->
other -------------------------------------->
other ------------------------------------>
other ----------------------------------->
other ---------------------------------->
other --------------------------------- >
other --------------------------------->
other ------------------------------->
other ------------------------------>
other ------------------------------>
With sated, it would look more like this, it flattens it…
Hunter 1 ------------------------------------------------------------->
Warlock 1 ----------------------------------------------------------->
Hunter 2 ----------------------------------------------------------->
Warlock 2 -------------------------------------------------------->
Hunter 3 --------------------------------------------------------->
Warlock 3 ------------------------------------------------------->
other ------------------------------------------------->
other ------------------------------------------------>
other ----------------------------------------------->
other ---------------------------------------------->
other --------------------------------------------->
other -------------------------------------------->
other ------------------------------------------>
other ----------------------------------------->
other ---------------------------------------->
You know what happens when you make BL raid wide along with other party buffs?
You get Wrath raid comps where you dump all your shaman except 1.
I didn’t say raid wide BL though, I just said the drum treatment with group wide BL. Instead of encouraging lock/hunter group lust rotations, where only a few people get lust buffs. It also opens up the chance for strategic differences about when which groups will lust.
Public Service Announcement:
Parse
/pärs/
See definitions in:
verb
- analyze (a sentence) into its parts and describe their syntactic roles.
“I asked a couple of students to parse these sentences for me”
noun
COMPUTING
- an act of or the result obtained by parsing a string or a text.
“a failed parse was retried”
Starting to see a trend of people using this word incorrectly.
Example: “it leads to stacking all your Bloodlust in one group and denies other groups from parsing”
This is the incorrect way to use this word.
Semantic argument about slang terms, but parsing is literally a breakdown of your damage into the component parts that it was made of. The act of comparing your parse to another is casually referred to as “parsing” in the community. Either way, your argument doesn’t really add to the discussion but thanks for the bump.
First of all - You generally don’t BL the healer group - that’s kind of pointless.
And if you really want to optimize - throwing a lust in a group with a tank is somewhat suboptimal, the exception being the hunter/feral druid group.
In most meta raid comps that have 5 shammys, you’ll have 2 dps focused groups (usually the hunter/feral and Lock/boomkin/caster groups) - It is both these groups you want to have lust for as much of the fight time as possible. Lust lasts for 40 seconds - so with 4 shammys, both these group can be lusted for 1 minute 20 seconds and one of them (probably the hunter early on and casters in later tier) can have it for 40 more seconds (2 minutes) with 5 shammys rotating in and out of groups. Most fights will not be much more than 2 minutes long so I find this scenario of only 1 group getting all 5 lusts (which would mean lust for 3 minutes 20 seconds) unlikely to be the optimal play for MOST encounters.
And even if it turns out that lusting 1 group over and over is the better way - your parses on WCL are measured against other of your same class - so if the optimal play dictates your class normally doesn’t get BL during this fight, then that’s the same rules all other of your class are measured against as well.
Obviously, you could work with your team to modify your team’s plan for an encounter to help you parse higher - not that anyone has ever found a team to do things like jump off the cliff on Fankriss to let one healer parse. Or elect that one mage to get all the ignites this week. Or have all the warriors pop Death Wish/Reck on a different boss this week. I’m sure there are no guilds out there that would work together to feed a permanent lust to a ret pally for the lulz at all. Guilds like that clearly don’t exist - so let’s just nerf all the shammys so everyone can be equal.
Yeah, makes sense for short fights to split the lusts into two dps groups.
But with sated, if there are 5 shamans in the raid for totems, the tanks and healers will probably get it, too, unless they want to save those lusts for later attempts/trash. It’s not a complete waste for tanks and healers, because they get increased threat and faster heal casts, respectively.
Actually, if sated lasts as long as the lust cooldown, the tanks and healers will get it.
If at any time you need Lust on your healers to help you survive - you need better healers. Dramatically quicker cast time on heals with a smaller raid sizes will more often than not just lead to more over-healing or in the best case - 1 or 2 healers just dps’ing with lust - a lust that would have been better served dropped on a dps group.
Tanks DO get increase threat with lust - but so do all the dps - it would be interesting to see which scales faster - but given that tanks are expected to hold threat against lusted dps without lust themselves - I suspect the increased threat is more or less pointless.
And again - there is nothing stopping you from working with your team to bump your parse this week by feeding all the lusts into rogue/warrior group. Optimal lust usage, especially in t4, is not required to clear any of the content.
No they didn’t. In BC they buffed drums because they found that LW was very unpopular profession because it’s benefits weren’t great. The drum buff was meant to bring LW in line with other crafting professions. They missed the mark and made it too good, resulting in LW becoming “required”. They’re are simply bringing it back in like with the other crafting professions.
You’ll still need a few LW’s in raid, but the whole raid wont be “required” to run it. This argument doesn’t hold up for hero/lust because I can’t be a warlock/shaman. And nobody is gunna run 25 shamans just for max hero uptime lol. Class abilities are not the same as profession perks.
Yeah, I wasn’t saying it was needed. Just saying if the sated buff were introduced, and it lasts as long as the lust cooldown, for the shaman in the healer group, it’s either use it on the healers or don’t use it at all.
Not being able to 100% maintain drums affects parses, there is no legitimate way to argue otherwise. Permanent haste on you/the raid is going to lead to higher damage and faster kills. Meaning better parses for groups that do manage to rotate. Leather working was never required on retail and guilds cleared Sunwell without every group rotating before prepatch. All the best parses however were done by players who had drum rotations and stacked lust in one group.
The one major difference between them and now, is the spread of knowledge and the tendency for even casual groups to creep towards meta. You’re going to have the majority of players doing it because of meta-slave and min/max culture, even when it doesn’t noticeably change your groups efficiency. Look at all the guilds that enforced world buff metas but still took 2 hours to clear or wiped early on. They still shamed players who didn’t get fully buffed despite it not making a huge difference for that guild.