Crushing blows aren’t crits. Are we speaking of two different things here?
If the raids turn out to work similarly to the private servers then druids will be tanking in all raids in classic up to, and including Naxx. Maybe not every encounter, but there’s plenty of video evidence of druid tanking on youtube.
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Of course. But if you’re not a world first raiding guild with sponsors, Druids can tank just fine. Writing them off because world first teams did does a massive disservice to Classic.
And this is the same group who does things like “All healers are shaman for this fight, no other healers are viable”.
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Crushing blows only do 1.5x damage do they not? crits are 2x damage.
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No they aren’t. But you can get crushed. Not crit. 2 different parts of boss hit table.
Hold up.
Druids have a taunt. Paladins don’t.
Druids are beefier in terms of health pool and armor and generate more threat. The downside is that they’re weak to crushing blows and have no defensive cooldowns to speak of. Not a good idea on high damage output bosses or fights with mechanics that would screw them like Nefarian. They’re beastly on some other fights though.
Paladins are only good at aoe tanking, they have a broken kit that requires them to be crit in order to proc avoidance talents, it’s a mess. In the few aoe situations where they’d shine, there’s no point in having them over a warrior really.
Warriors have everything: ST threat, AoE threat, defensive cooldowns, 3 taunts, and most importantly, they can push crushing blows off the table by using Shield Block. That’s why they’re the meta tanks.
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Yeah its not because of taunt they have a hard time besides druids should of taunt if I remembering right.
Its has more to do with gear over all, wow pve relies on gear if there isn’t an abundant of decent sets then it probably would be near impossible for people to see it happen.
Paladins not so much, but some situations may require taunt. Gear would be most important.
Druids have growl.
Itemizations of druids and healers have made mitigation less important. Threat matters more.
When raids were less itemized in the past made druid tanks less attractive of a option, but now… they actually do more threat than a prot warrior… and are the flat out better tanks in high magic damage bosses.
Druids have the health pool to deal with the lower Defense… If your raid dps is on par, you’ll be fine.
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And to be clear. Never said they couldn’t tank. Was giving a reason most guild don’t want them as MT.
its mostly not because they don’t have a taunt; druids have one, and prot paladins didn’t, but they had BoP which isn’t quite the same thing but is essentially the same thing on a huge cd in some cases and not others
its because both of them are far more susceptible to burst damage than warriors are; prot warriors barely ever get crushed, but bear druids get crushed and critted often, while prot paladins need to wear blue armor in order to not get critted, which really sucks after BWL… and prot paladins get crushed regularly because they can’t hit the avoidance cap without getting critted first
bear druids can take burst damage more easily than prot paladins can, which is why people say that you can have 1 bear druid as an offtank
prot warriors are better single-target tanks in general than bear druids are, but bear druids provide that LotP buff to the main tank, and bear druids don’t have to MT, so yeah
prot paladins are only good for single-target tanking against soft-hitters, and they’re good for AoE tanking too
however, bear druids generate alot more single-target threat than prot warriors do, especially after they both get gear
but bear druids die more easily and can’t use shield wall to survive in certain boss fights, like hakkar when he enrages at like 10%, or was it 5%?
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Yeah we’re assuming the tank isn’t naked in this scenario I’m assuming. The tank doesn’t need to be defense capped. And they aren’t going to be one shot while fully buffed by the raid and with a flask.
When you have a tank who is buffed, they’re not getting one shot. Maybe three or four shot? I don’t know.
I do know that threat limits the DPS. Therefore the only thing preventing you from killing the boss faster is threat. So increase threat, you increase your DPS limit.
Tank’s health and if they’re going to get two or three or four shot is on the healers to watch out for.
But this is near the later stages of the game when everyone knows what they’re doing. That’s when you can sacrifice defense for threat, like the warriors who took off gear or swapped gear due to rage starvation.
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Druids have the health pool to deal with crushes. They do more threat than prot warriors, and healer and dps optimization makes mana less of an issue than it used to be.
The one true and only disadvantage to a druid tank is on pulls…
If a druid tank gets unlucky on a pull where their attack is missed like 2-3 times in a row… dps can pull aggro.
Since druids do their dps in larger chunks, misses in the first 10 seconds of a pull can be very annoying.
The druid tank just has to give dps a heads up if this happens.
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It’s not impossible. Requires the raid to really hold back at the start. More than usual. They are perfectly capable of off tanking with a lot of bosses. But bosses who require a taunt swap or other pulled aggro mechanic are a no go outside warrior. As for Pallies or Druids getting taunt in classic? No. That didn’t exist in Classic.
Druids had growl in vanilla.
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if paladins had a taunt i would make a prot paladin. so for me yeah its no taunt thats stopping me.
i am going to be making a feral tank though.
What? Druids had a taunt lol
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Most paladins back in the day used bubble in the same way that righteous defense worked in TBC.
If you really want a taunt, that works, not as good of course, but it’s a work around. Do what you want though. I can’t make you enjoy a class.
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Survivability issues.
Druids can tank in classic. Pretty damn well even. They had stupid high armor and hp to deal with no defense and crushing blows.
Paladins, on the other hand, were simply worse warriors with limited mana, an inability to remove crushing blows, and most of their threat coming from attacks against them (holy shield.) also no taunt.
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Paladins lack a taunt which prevents them from tanking or off tanking many fights. They are also tied to a mana bar which causes problems on a couple of fights as well, along with limiting their ability to tank longer encounters. They also can not become crush immune, at least not until they are in T3 BiS maybe. Finally they simply inferior to warriors in both single target threat generation and mitigation. Paladins don’t have the defensive abilities warriors do and need the same stats warriors do along with SP, and to some degree int.
Yes, there are a few encounters where a paladin’s AoE tanking ability is superior to a warriors. Unfortunately a paladin OT is useless to the raid for the 90% of encounters that they can not tank.
Druids are somewhat viable. They supposedly do very well on resistance fights. Even though they have higher armor and health than warriors, they can not become crit or crush immune and have only dodge to avoid damage, meaning they ultimately take more damage over the course of a fight. They also lack defensive CDs. As an OT they are inferior to a fury warrior when not tanking, unless of course they spend days on end farming gnomer for bags full of MCPs.
Druids are capable OTs but require a very hardcore player driving them. Mostly the farming of gnomer. Without enough MCPs to make it through trash and boss fights, a druid is simply inferior to a warrior by a lot. If the druid isn’t keeping constant up time on MCP during both bosses and trash, the handful of bosses that he excels at will be overshadowed by the fact that he is being carried during the rest of the content. A warrior is more than capable of tanking anything a druid can while doing excellent damage without the need to even try that hard.
In closing, Paladins are a lot of fun to tank with. I enjoy tanking 5 mans, and have even been able to OT in MC because I had a better tanking set than most of our warriors. BWL and beyond though it simply isn’t worth carrying someone that just isn’t able to provide much to the raid. I normally tank 5 mans as a druid to gear up, mostly because healing 5 mans without a res can be rough. Druids are pretty boring to tank with. For a new player I guess I can see the appeal, they are a very easy class to play as a tank. I couldn’t imagine wanting to main with one though.
Druids had a taunt. Paladins getting a taunt would at least make it possible for them to be in a raid, however they would still be so badly outclassed by a warrior that it wouldn’t make sense to bring one beyond the most casual of raiding guilds with no interest in progression.