This is to me probably the worst thing about the current crop of gamers. They only care about “competition” and being “the best”, and screw everything else. It really makes me sad that I missed the early days of MMORPGs because that wasn’t a thing then (at least not in the same capacity) and once I got into them, that mindset had started to infect the genre.
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What is wrong with people wanting to play a game how they want to play it and letting you play how you want to?
This game is big enough for both of us.
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That’s what classic is for.
For those that enjoy an evolved game, retail exists.
I think there’s another group the sadists might be targeting: the Timmies. The people who are screwed over because they don’t know better when they choose a covenant. Timmy picks necrolord because they LOOK powerful, like Kel’thuzad or Ainz Ooal Gown, then finds out he’s actually weak, and the sadists get their vindictive jollies.
classic isn’t vanilla.
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RPG choices cannot function the same in a game that requires many players to group up and cooperate
you will see complaints here on the forums until 9.2, when they change it, because they won’t change it now but their hand will be forced eventually
it’ll be history repeating itself, and arguments for casual play don’t make it any less inevitable
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Why do you care about the way people play the game? They are allowed to play the game they want.
Covenants are a great idea. Locking power systems behind them isn’t.
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Classic isn’t even good. This is like the same garbage as “lol go to retail” any time someone had a complaint about Classic. It’s not binary.
Because the way they play the game is detrimental. That entire excuse is garbage and breaks down no matter how many people try to peddle the “let other people enjoy it” bullcrap when the way they enjoy it corrupts and infests everything else around it.
Everyone always falls back on that as an excuse when it’s not.
So me playing the game with my friends trying to push keys destroys the game for you? Umm… How?
The attitude that goes along with it. Every time the competitive “I want to be the very best” mindset comes along, it twists everything else. It doesn’t matter the genre or the game, I’ve seen it everywhere, in WoW, Warhammer, even D&D. It’s always the same, no matter the genre. It’s like a parasite and eventually takes over everything.
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How does separating the power from the covenant or letting me swap covenants between raid and keys “twist” your fun of the game though? I’m over here with my friends in our own circle doing our own thing. We are unlikely to ever interact in game at all. How does that impact you in the slightest?
Ok you added the bit where you said it takes over everything so will reply to that too.
I raid on a druid and got ce the last 2 teirs. Druid brings nothing that is particularly useful and I honestly can’t think of a reason to take one of you are wanting to min max. It didn’t stop me from doing it and doing perfectly fine doing so.
Because the covenants are being pitched as being major, important choices that define your character, not something you can change like a piece of gear on a whim. It defeats the purpose if you can swap them around. Why even have them then if they aren’t going to be meaningful?
That doesn’t answer the question though. How does me swapping mine effect you and yours?
Wouldn’t it be a bigger rp choice to stick with one covenant the whole time if you do have the ability to swap but choose not to?
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YAY! You can save me when I get lost lol.
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I think you’re strawman twisting a healthy desire, that’s more like “I want to be strong”. The desire to go up against a hostile, impartial world, and survive. How do you do that in WoW? Well, you research your class for one, research that could easily land you on Method’s website. And what content do you engage with if you really want to test your character’s strength? Usually it involves a dungeon or enrage timer that encourages you to do minor optimizations. In very few situations will you hit a Dark Souls style survival challenge.
This kind of attitude doesn’t really drive you to surpass other players until your gear is already so close to perfect that your only challenge is to be “the highest rated [class]” or “have the best parse on [fight] out of all players of [class]”.
Because you being able to swap yours changes the concept. Even if I don’t do it, the fact you can do it when you shouldn’t is enough to change the concept.
Yes, it would be a bigger RP choice to choose not to. But let’s be honest here, you seem like a reasonable person. You know full well that if you can switch, the expectation will be to switch. It’s bad enough that the expectation is already to ignore anything but “optimal” when picking one. Being able to change it on a whim will just make that worse, even if it’s not the attempt.
That’s why I despise the competitive mindset. Because it’s not enough that you can do something, it has to be that everyone eventually needs to or they’re “bads” or “scrubs” or whatever the term du jour is for not doing it, whether or not it’s actually necessary. If you can complete the content at 80% effectiveness, the expectation will still be 100% or nothing.
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t actually be talking as though you are the problem, and I don’t mean that. I’ve just seen too many things get pitched with the whole “well you don’t have to do it, the fact I can doesn’t affect you” spiel when it will affect everything because that’s how it always goes. If you can do something, and it’s “optimal” you’re all but forced to do it whether you want to or not, because peer pressure will make you.
I’ve had too many experiences across too many games where “can” means “must” and “I like X and not Y” turns into “X sucks so you’re going to lose/not be invited/etc. because you should have picked Y instead even if you preferred X” is the norm. Whether it’s picking an army and units I like in Warhammer 40,000 that aren’t “the best” and then being told to ignore everything I ike and pick the “competitive” choices instead or picking a spec/talent/whatever in WoW that I like but isn’t the meta, it’s always the same.
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Wouldn’t it make sense just to lock the ability to change your covenant ability behind Exalted rep with that covenant, so when you max out one rep you just move onto the other?
This whole design scheme stinks of more stringing us out for the sake of it.
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If they’re going to make covenant abilities swappable, they might as well scrap the entire system, turn the covenants into four new reps to grind, and just give us access to everything. If the choice is going to be rendered toothless and meaningless then what’s the point of having it?