“These fantasy dragon mooks are so problamatic!”
Oh no. Anyways.
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Yet another person didn’t even bother to read the post because they got triggered by the word “problematic”.
Yawn.
Do you think I’m calling the devs racist, too? Join the club with Benediktion and the other morons who didn’t actually read my critique of the story.
We can disagree respectfully, after engaging with the content of this thread, or you can choose to be a troglodyte.
You’ve chosen the later. Bye forever <3
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I’m convinced they either didn’t read it, or they did and simply don’t understand what you’re saying
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Troglydyte? Is there something wrong with living in a cave? This is incredibly problematic speech. You desperately need to check yourself friendo. I just robloxoof.mp4’d.
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It’s because idiots get so triggered by the use of the word “problematic” that they dont even bother to engage with genuine story criticism.
I literally say in the title I think this is funny. Clearly, I’m not offended by any of this. I’m mocking bad writing.
These morons don’t realize stories exist to transmit ideas, and that political / societal issues are a core component to fictional worldbuilding. Even comic books and cartoons are capable of doing this, and often do.
They get so triggered when anyone dares address a component of the story they don’t want us to, even if it’s obvious bad writing.
They’re so desperate to live in their imaginary world where nothing of substance should ever exist within a story, and if a writer tries to tackle these issues and fails miserably, we should just ignore it entirely.
“Sorry, you are wrong. Fiction has always been an instrument to transmit ideas. Target demographic, tone or genre is widely irrelevant. The idea that writers are able to enter a pure disassociative state devoid of any underlining ideology is a myth that has been debunked so many times throughout history.”
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The origins of the Drakonid/Dragonspawn aren’t exactly the problem, I disagree there. It’s the resolution of the quest and how it utterly further butchered Alex’s character that is kind of the problem.
“Oh no I didn’t realise these guys would like to be treated like people.” is such a bizarre departure for a character that is meant to be the epitome of empathy and the Queen-Mother of Dragonkind.
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See, I didn’t even consider that aspect of it because Alex’s character has already been butchered throughout this expansion. This is just some extra frosting on top.
This is game fiction. At the time not even the creators took this more seriously than writing a Wing Commander movie. Have you ever seen the original game illustrations of Stormwind Keep? It makes the original D&D books look like High Art in comparison.
So? Also, trying to imply that Warcraft is…whatever you’re trying to imply here, is meaningless. Who cares if the original illustrations of Stormwind Keep were…whatever you’re trying to imply.
No one is arguing that this series didn’t begin as a ripoff of other properties. But to act like there was no passion or intent in the process of EVOLVING this IP is just stupid.
This argument that we shouldn’t criticize WoW’s modern story because WoW was never good is such a tired and meaningless take that contributes nothing.
Everything you’ve said in this thread so far has been quickly shot down by various other people in this thread, then you just switch to something else to complain about.
You tried to poke holes in Kohnila’s post about the black dragonflight, and they immediately shot you down with obvious, surface level lore that takes seconds to research.
You went on a whole screed about how the RPG “was never” canon, even though that wasn’t even the point I was trying to make, then when I bring up all the examples of RPG elements making their way into the game, you moved to debate something else I wasn’t even arguing.
I’m just trying to get a sense of what your purpose is, here. Because it seems like all you’ve done in this thread is try to shut down everyone else’s criticisms of the game with weak and easily refutable arguments, and then you move the goalpost somewhere else and start again.
It’s tiresome.
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What’s tiresome is the push to make everything into a political interpretation.
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This, and honestly I am getting so tired of it.
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Lol so now you finally admit what you’re trying to get at, and why you seemed to just be looking for things to argue about.
I love how you just spent several posts poking holes in random things and making awful arguments that had nothing to do with anything, just because you were actually getting triggered by us bringing up “politics”.
Why don’t you just go somewhere else, if you don’t want to engage with the topic? No one is forcing you to be here.
The funniest part is, you people are focusing so much more on politics than anyone in this thread. We’re having a discussion about various aspects of Warcraft’s bad storytelling, but whenever someone dares to talk about the obvious political/social aspects of a setting you clutch your pearls.
This is a setting. This is a world. In any fictional world there are political, cultural, and social aspects. It’s part of making a fictional universe feel immersive, detailed, and complete. Without any of this, we’d be left with a bland homogenous world with no conflict.
Warcraft chose to engage with these essential aspects of a fantasy world, and they did so in a poorly written way. No one cares that the words “political” or “problematic” triggers you so hard. I am sorry you are such a vapid person that you can’t handle a hint of substance within a fantasy world. But it is not my problem.
The fact that several people have completely sidestepped the critique of this story, and just start spazzing out about anyone DARING to mention the word politics…within a fantasy world that has political structures, is just hilarious to me. And it shows how immature some of you people are. You are acting like whiney little children while the rest of us (on both sides) are having an interesting discussion.
Cry about it.
For God’s sake, just replace the word “political” with “ice cream” if it makes you feel better. The writers wrote soemthing poorly. It is not my fault that it was a political topic. It’s the writers’ fault. They chose to engage with this, and they did so in a poorly written way.
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I have better things to do with my time than project irl politics on fictional dragons.
You all seem to forget this world of warcraft has absolutely zero impact on the real world. It’s great that you see parallels to irl political situations and it’s made you more aware of irl injustice, but there’s literally nothing to be gained about arguing over fictional settings. I am getting tired of this halfa–ed “this is bad writing” argument without offering up clear examples of why the writing is bad or without offering solutions.
Everything by its very nature is political, there is no such thing as not political
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There are plenty of stories that are just stories. Tolkien’s work for example, was neither political, nor allegorical. Influenced by the author’s culture, surely, but that doesn’t make it a political or even allegorical statement, as opposed to say, a Charles Dickens story. or the original Godzilla movie which was the only legal way in Japan to make a protest on atomic warfare.
The subsequent Godzilla movies abandoned that for cheap rubber suit entertainment.
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Imagine calling someone ‘vapid’ over dragons.
Using Tolkien for this example is hilarious, there is so much scholarly debate and interpretation about his works I don’t know how you can read it with some political lens. Even if the author insists that they’re completely apolitical, that itself is a political statement, it is what they perceive as ‘normal’ which can’t exist without political structures supporting it. You literally can’t write without your influences and those influences are political. Like, if I have ‘cultural influences’ that suggest minorities are inferior, prone to being influenced by evil or vices, you’ll likely write that into your plots even unintentionally so. It’s like… One of the biggest problems with writing orcs and ‘coding’ in so many media pieces, and I promise if you asked a lot of them if the coding was intentional they’d deny it in good faith, and yet…
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You’d have to discuss that with the plethora of scholars who still disect his work to this day.
The claim that Tolkien’s work isn’t allegorical is ignoring letters he’s written later in his life, years after he made those claims. Many of them pertaining his portrayal of the orcs.
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There’s such thing as intellectual make-work. Again I did say that Tolkien was influenced by his culture, and that culture was … you know… British. And his was the normal level of British racism at the time. (C.S. Lewis was worse), but he was simply creating a world and a hero’s journey.
Artwork is as much as what people read into it as what the artist pours out.
I think there’s a disconnect here. No one is claiming that all works of art have a conscious imprint of political ideology by their author. The claim here is that all work is inherently political because there’s no such thing as a fully objective writer, and as such certain cultural and ideological biases tend to slip out.
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