As a DK, I want no slappy hands and instead something more flavorful to the class identity instead of all this borrowed power crap that wasn’t tailored toward spec identity whatsoever.
Soul reaper being on class tree is a good move, for example. I want more of that.
Hunters middle tier of Class Talents are Worst by far!
Specing in to Improve mend pet & Scare beast feels really bad! Scare beast needs to be Baseline period!
Survival has to spec 6 talent points just to 6% (DEADLY DUO & PREDATOR) chance to proc a Kill shot
We didn’t get any really new Abilities just passive bonuses while rouge has a lot of 1 point talents that gives them verity.
Why does BM & MM get wailing arrow but not Surv?
all 3 specs are… do (THIS) to get a kill shot proc. (AIM SHOT, KILL COMMAND)
Coordinated Assault not really good anymore unless you play a range build but the range build isn’t good cause you have to select dead talents for the 6% Killshot build
We got zero Defensives Capabilities in theses spec trees and we are the most squishiest class in the game. (Was hoping for Aspect of the Monkey)
Not trying to complain but there some classes already that are kind of broken in there trees. Would love to see blizzard Revaluate the Hunter tree. Till then will be switching classes, because this terrible I feel that hunters really got the short end of the stick I haven’t even mention that the stuff we are keeping from SLs we didn’t get craven not or even Venthyr ability.
So I’m assuming this is very rough 1st draft of the Rogue trees. I did not see one choice listed for the whole 2 ‘Choice talents’ in the class tree, and didn’t see any in the spec trees.
Welcome to the feral druid camp.
If rogues only had an 8 second stun, it would be ok but they have so many other tools it’s not funny
I had some questions regarding the rogue tree! I am a Sub Rogue main, I do M+, and heroic raiding, and dabble in the lower bosses of mythic raids.
multiple talents reference Rupture, however Rupture is not listed as ever being learnable in anyform (i.e. baseline, or as a talent)
Same as above except for Kidney Shot
In the class tree, at the very bottom, Find Weakness is available as a talent, meaning you would have to spend a significant amount of talents to get this. This is fine, however, shifting over to the Subtlety tree, multiple talents, closer to the top reference being effected and using Find Weakness. This leads me to 2 questions: 1. what happens to the reference talents if I did not pick Find Weakness in my class tree, as some of these will inevitably be picked to be able to move further down the tree (do they just not work as a talent? Do they use some other alternative modifier?), and 2. What happens when leveling, if you pick in you spec tree a talent affected by Find Weakness, but can’t pick Find Weakness yet in your class tree due to it being so far down the tree.
My last comment is less a question and more of a concern: Back when Sanctum of Domination was being released, it was referenced in an interview that many classes lacked a raid-wide utility and therefore were not usable in raids unless they were op in dps. I see that, although Blizzard referenced them needing a raid-wide, they were not given a raid-wide utility. Is this being considered?
Otherwise, I am overall very excited about this talent tree and can’t wait to test it out!!
HoJ is 6 seconds, not 8, AND it is dispellable.
Not only that, but with these talent trees, rogues also have Sap, Blind, Gouge, Garrote Silence, Crippling Poison, Wound Poison, Mind Numbing Poison and their upgraded versions.
Rogues already had too much control in Shadowlands, just like every expansions before that, they are the main reason why every tournament is just an RMP simulator for the past 15 years.
Aright so talent trees brings the game a pre-Cata feel that a lot of OG wow players like me will love. Acrobatic Strikes Imo is useless so torch it. I like that I get access to baseline abilities I can’t get from other specs right now. All hail the one true stun lock rogues return. However I miss the feeling of getting a new ultimate move in a talent tree rework. Shadow Dance, Killing Spree, I think Assassination’s was Vendetta. You might be screwing the proverbial pooch on that one because I have heard fellow rogues say they would leave if they ever lost their Vendetta. My point though these ultimate moves made working toward the end of a talent tree worth spending that 55 points into a tree worth it. While you have tried to kind of do this by including covenant abilities in the later points spent they aren’t anything new. Give me a new move!!! Let my rogue do new and amazing things!!!
Am I wrong, but didn’t yall say you wanted less CC? Rogue gets 2 extra seconds on their already long stun (6 secs going to 8 with double deeper strategem) and get all of their old CC with no opportunity cost. Yet Shadow Priest can’t afford to get any of their utility or damage reduction, because it competes with dps nodes.
Rogue Feedback
RAID UTILITY!! Every class/spec should get some form of raid buff and defensive. Right now, rogues bring nothing uniquely beneficial to a group. Everyone in this game chases player power, so this Outlaw only buff would force players to play Outlaw. The spec isn’t dead, so this push toward one spec makes no sense. When Rogues do not bring the highest damage or are needed for shroud (M+ only), they are often not brought. Blizzard: 1) give a unique buff to all Rogues or 2) change the overall raid buff/utility philosophy so that things overlap or compensate for each other; aka bring the player, not the class. Think of Heroism/Lust, which can be provided by three classes. That philosophy should apply to all. Give us flexibility and let us break free from “the meta”.
Buff suggestions, for example:
PS: Party Buffs are a BAD idea. #diversityandinclusion
bummer they are butchering Wotlk too much for my taste to stay subbed (already canceled just waiting for cut off date) * (it was only reason I resub before they started their #everychangethatnooneaskedfor and now I won’t have to worry about re-subbing for DF either. *was looking forward to RSV in some version of the game but not in the mess they are making of classic.
So HoJ stun lock into a kill in .01s for ret isnt an issue?
As other rogues have pointed out there is a lack of raid utility (outlaw being an exception). Maybe we could bring a rogue version of health stones as a vial.
I’m assuming another pass will happen to the rogue trees since none of them have ‘Choice Talents’ listed. Hope, Bone Spike is a choice somewhere.
As a sub main, I would really prefer leaving SnD to the sin rogues like in Legion.
I know its in the name, but Backstab’s position requirement has felt annoying to deal with on bosses that don’t have a floor behind them (example Muezhalla).
Also, Shadowblades has always felt underwhelming to push. It doesn’t even have a noticeable spell animation. I think it could be replaced with something like the Shadow Reflections talent back in WoD/Mists.
Secret Techniques is also very visually underwhelming and apparently not performing much better than Black Powder. Since that side of the tree emphasizes shuriken, maybe a new talent/ability that throws a volley of shuriken at the target.
Another suggestion is maybe some kind of ability that lets sub rogues pull out a chain and sickle if we want to keep up with the ninja theme.
I would like to try Outlaw again but talents that are dead on live Killing Spree and Dread Blades don’t give me much confidence. Especially Killing Spree’s habit of teleporting you off and edge or into AoE.
Seems like a rushed job and done by people that don’t play\don’t know what to do.
I would like to post a very specific thing that I am missing from the Hunter trees:
After playing the WotLK beta a bit, I have remembered the magic that is the tension created by balancing Black Arrow’s limited duration, Explosive Shot cooldown resets, and not overwriting the DoT created by Explosive Shot while trying to keep those resets from piling up.
I would like to see that tension come back in some form with those specific abilities for Dragonflight, or something similar for Marksmanship.
I think doing these things would bring that tension back:
1. Black Arrow - replaces the current slot of Quick Shot. Quick Shot (part of Dead Eye on live) is very difficult to use with the long cast time of Aimed Shot and our limited Focus pool, so I don’t think this talent would be missed much. Resets the cast time of Explosive Arrow - see #3.
2. Serpentstalker’s Trickery (removed) this talent unfortunately closes us off from choosing Serpent Sting in the Class tree as Serpent Sting becomes redundant when Serpentstalker’s Trickery is selected.
3. Explosive Arrow (replaces Dead Eye) - converts Aimed Shot into Explosive Arrow, which places a single target DoT on the target, has 2 charges, and the goal is to keep one charge rolling on the target but not overcap on ability resets.
4. Lock and Load - changed to affect Explosive Arrow when the talent is selected.
5. Trick Shots - changed to affect Explosive Arrow to pulse AoE damage with its damage over time component while active.
6. Replace Wailing Arrow with Serpent Spread - this is mostly a bonus possibility, where we are able to put Serpent Sting on multiple targets (at lower potency) using Multi Shot.
If ANY of this feedback reaches the devs, I will be eternally grateful. I implore you to PLEASE hear that the tension created by Explosive Shot/Black Arrow is such a fun combo for us as players, and no other spec in the game has recreated it. The WotLK beta has reignited my desire to see this interaction in the live game. If you all disagree, I totally understand. But we’ve wanted this for so many years as just an option since SV went melee.
Thank you for reading <3
The hunter talent layout is an abomination. Don’t put core abilities at the ends of the trees.
why do sub and outlaw rogue talents are only 1 or 2 points , They have Zero 3 points talent, and Sin rogue only has one 3 points talents … they get so many more skill then other class and even on the main rogue tree SO many 1 point talent…
I’m happy I can totally spec into lone wolf playstyle as a marksmanship hunter. Not forced to take any talent that required a pet, except for if I wanted to take Scare Beast but it’s not a deal breaker for me.
I love Wild Spirits!
Holy moly. Needs some major adjustments. I don’t like core abilities as talents. (lol at MD being down a bit that obv everyone will need).
and needing to spec into bestial wrath when it’s the most core ability of bm? K. Maybe get someone to design this who idk… has played a hunter?