My question is, are there going to be choice nodes for rogues like the other classes have?
what was wrong with wild spirts
Another potential solution to the dilemma in the right section of the Subtlety tree, and several talents that are on an island being blockaded by the AoE/Cleave talents over there. While this may violate a principle of uniformity and symmetry that the Rogue trees seem to keep strictly to, a connection made between the talent Deepening Shadows and Shadowed Finishers would allow the player to continue adding onto their Single Target oriented build without forfeiting points to those 3 AoE/Cleave talents above. It provides some much needed mobility between the middle section of the tree which features a lot of the core for Subtlety, and the bottom right that features some cool synergistic Shadow damage elements that relate to other points of the tree. Although this fixes one problem, it causes another which luckily I also can propose a solution for. Dark Brew would still be left on an island that is related to the 3 AoE/Cleave. To remedy this, Dark Brew and Shuriken Tornado swap places. This way you put all of the AoE/Cleave related talents in their own little grouping, and the Shadow related talents into their own little grouping, with a bridge to them so they arenât isolated from the rest of the tree. I think these changes would do wonders for the Subtlety tree since a large amount of complaints towards the Subtlety tree currently relate to lack of mobility between the 3 distinct sections.
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I wanted to look back at this feedback and make a revision: I kind of like the idea of full Aimed Shot builds where you can opt out of Rapid Fire.
SV going just great /s
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Hunters and warlocks will tank before Shaman I am sure.
The thing is, I donât think they want us to have too much connectivity on purpose. Itâs broken up to get people not to put skill points directly in that area. Same reason why veil touched and our deeper daggers arenât hanging out as neighbors. They had to split us up a little bit to get people to move around a little bit. If they plopped too many things in the Southeast part of the skill tree then it would be too stacked. They broke that up on purpose (good thing)
Alternatively, with it being spread, it is less likely to get destroyed by tuning because of having to make a decision to branch down further. I really dig dark brew and Replicating Shadows is probably the closest we will get to having Sanguinary Vein + Blood splatter back so Iâm cool with the placement.
I have no interest in shuriken tornado or secret technique regardless of how strong they potentially could be because it isnât what I have planned to based stuff around.
Edit: Secret Technique and Tornado could be really filthy if someone uses Reprimand or double deeper stratagem to build for 7 point finishers and that is most likely why that area doesnât have a bunch of tom foolery going on there.
Youâre probably right that the lack of branches is mostly intentional. As mentioned way upstream somewhere, sticking r2 Evisc behind Powder and Improved Shurikens is likely there to basically make some AoE stuff baseline-ish since everyone will want Shadow Finishers.
This could just be to throttle our ability to stack single target things. Or maybe just to avoid a world where half the Sub rogues in pug dungeons do like zero AoE damage lol
That said, having to pick up Replicating Shadows too seems like a bridge too far. While it will be fine in any PvE group content where you want a Rupture cleave, it could be an issue in arena and solo play with unwanted bleeds interfering with cc that doesnât remove dots or is broken by them.
Whether they give us extra branches or not, this part could be helped by swapping the positions of Replicating and Veil Touched. Veil Touched works for both ST and AoE (especially if headed for deep daggers), and the spot it was in would make the cleave optional. It would also give low level rogues a bump in cleave/AoE damage we tend to lag at until approaching max level now. 
youre not gonna see any tears from me dawg 
youve been way too strong lately⌠you need a stick in the wheel lol
Iâm sorry but the Hunter talent tree feels so lazy and rushed. Things that should be kept baseline being thrown into the tree to force people to take them and miss out on something else is just horrible design. Old talent trees were fun because it kept things baseline that should be baseline. The problem with MoP trees and onward is they took baseline abilities and made them talents for absolutely no reason. These trees for Dragonflight are just doing the same thing.
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With MM now having the ability to use Kill Command, it would be nice to get some talents in the spec tree that interact with it. Thereâs a lot of potential to diversify the builds better by doing so. Adding it to the effected spells for Trick Shots would be a start.
Understandable, same time we are rogues and traditionally we put the hate into 1 target. This cleave and whatever stuff didnât come along until we started getting finishers for that stuff and people got obsessed with every class should do everything.
I believe the distinction in the tree is so that you cannot try to be big dog in everything and that is good design there. We should have to make choices and not stacking the heck out of everything. The current placement encourages us to reach deeper into things. There should be a mix of stuff along the way and not a distinct " oh this is the cleave area" and that is clearly placed into a lot of the tree. If people wanted more cleave they will have to give up more power skill points to dig into those further points for Shuriken tornado + Secret Technique. I believe they placed those not to limit power specifically but to give you a small boost for going over to that area.
Black powder is my jam to supplement what I am aiming to do, I love Replicating Shadows and it will fit perfectly in what iâm planning down the road.
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Seriously doubtful since Shaman already had talents that could have made us into tanks. At the very least we were offtanks and had abilities to generate threat.
cries in along in hunter
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And paladins used to have a multi person tauntâŚand locks used to be good ârangedâ tanks in vanilla. Past is past.
pats head
Youâre adorable. Donât stop being you.
I can see the point youâre trying to make but the AoE points that I have to spend arenât really deterring me from going down the right side, all its doing is making it feel horrendously bad to go there. I can still very comfortably get all of what I want on the left side down to Perforated Veins (including Gloomblade), I get to get all of what I want in the middle down to Lingering Shadows, and then I get all of what I want on the right side down to Deeper Stratagem. Except now Iâm equipped for pure single target boss slapping, with lets say 2.5 dead talents since there is some single target benefit from Replicating Shadows. Do you think that this is âcoolâ decision making? Losing 3 talents because of lack of mobility across sections? See I donât really think thatâs cool decision making. To me cool decision making is instead having those 3 points back and then looking after the âcoreâ I built. Now I have cool decisions to make. I could get the Sepsis + Dark Brew + 1 other talent package for really cool synergy. I could go for Invigorating Shadowdust + The Rotten for more focus on amplifying my Shadowstrikes/Backstabs. Could go ahead and commit on the right side and grab Finality and Flagellation for some more burstyness. Hell, if the fight requires it we can take those 3 points and throw them in some utility such as a 2nd Shadowstep or other utility talents (which we have a ton of by the way compared to something like Assassination). See those in my opinion are cool decisions. But again, its really not preventing me from going down and grabbing those points, its just after I made the core synergistic package I want, I have nothing left to grab any type of neat capstones. Your argument also doesnât stand up when we compare the Subtlety tree to something like Assassination. Their tree has 1 mandatory AoE point and its Fan of Knives, Sub is in the same boat since you spec into Shuriken Storm for Relentless Strikes, I think that on its own isnât a big deal. What I do think differs in the Assassination tree is that their 3 AoE specialized talents, Poisoned Katar, Crimson Tempest, and Flying Daggers, are all PURELY opt in. They gate absolutely nothing. That is why in my opinion the Assassination tree is extremely well constructed. You pick your core and then use whatever points you have left to grab stuff you think is powerful and cool. I welcome disagreement but your argument isnât compelling enough to me to justify having absolute dead talents in certain situations. Especially when those dead talents are blockading cool, synergistic, and build defining talents. Thank you for reading if youâve made it this far by the way.
Thank you Blizzard team for all the work you are putting into this. There has been a lot of good work so far and I am looking forward to see the next iteration.
Unfortunately, I am disappointed with the first pass of the Hunter tree. Laser bear, all these Idols for Shadow priest, and Rogues⌠are crazy.
But being a hunter main since classic, there is a lot to be desired in the proposed talents. There are so many talents in there and none really seem on paper to be exciting. Appears to be a lot of three points for things that are quality of life items. Survival just adds dps, Marks just gives 3/4 of your shadowland kit, and Beast doesnât give anything different.
I am a big fan of a major rework and personally believe hunter needs it. My two cents⌠Beast = Melee, Multiple Pets, and Bleeds, Marks = Long Range, Burst, and Fire, Survival = Mid range, Poisons, and Traps.
Thank you again Blizz, I hope I can look forward to someone giving some love to a class Iâve loved since the beginning.
It is actually in the MM spec tree as a passive called Deathblow it is just above Lone Wolf