I saw that too but my guess is that it’s because they are making mortal dance a regular talent in dragonflight. They just haven’t changed its designation yet.
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Yeah fingers crossed its something like that. 40% from fury is busted i cant imagine 50% from dh
Classic Shay…
Proven wrong, let’s double down…
And lastly, let’s see how big of a lie I can get away with…
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I actuallt was one of the top eles. I was on the top rbg team. And significantly high on the ladder in 5s and 3s.
No one used astral shift NG every match. It was the best
cmon guys chill with the personal beef lets focus on getting someone who has dragonflight alpha access to finally post something in the feedback thread relating to pvp for once. Preferably relating to the complete void of defensives left by all the shadowlands borrowed power leaving. And also Id rather rely on a real authentic design for defense rather than stupid overjuiced healing surges that every 1 is gonna complain about and get nerfed regardless
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Even after the nerfs, we still have pretty great survivability through healing as well as really good support utility through strong off-healing.
My major issue with enhance as we close out shadowlands is in the cc department with a lack of good stuns or reliable cc.
When I look at the general tree, we seem to be getting a major upgrade in the cc department with better stuns through double cap totem and lightning lasso for better kill windows plus more ways to land hex with earthgrab and even perhap’s spirit walker’s aegis.
Plus more tools to stay on target with earthgrab totem, lightning lasso, and no longer having to choose between feral lunge and nature’s guardian.
On the defensive end we’re also getting a bit of relief while stunned through thunderstorm.
So, while we’re not getting a second defensive, the biggest hole in our kit - poor cc - seems like it’s getting a major upgrade.
I’m more worried about what other specs are getting right now than what we aren’t getting.
Like with all locks getting spirit link, are they going to all be immortal while doubling our dps?
MM hunters with intimidation and black arrow - are they just auto winning every match in their double tap windows with multiple 5 second ccs?
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DF S1 PvP is going to be wild. Sham is getting some good abilities, but so is everyone else.
The amount of utility, CC, movement, etc that some classes will now have is crazy. Monk being able to get their full movement row and defensive row (from the old talents) as an example.
Don’t really have any idea how it will go. I don’t think we have seen the PvP talents? Obviously some will need to be added as most classes have a few that are now core talents (lasso, etc.).
Being able to cast totems/purge etc from ghost wolf is really interesting I think. Do I just get my flameshocks going (perhaps with 1 GCD via magma totem) then chill in wolf form causing disruption via sheer, grounding, earthbound, grab, purge, etc? Pop out to lavaburst for a GCD. That might be super annoying to melee.
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Using totems and purging in ghost wolf is gonna be crazy for kiting.
I was originally happy to see the amount of defensives that we got, but the best one got nerfed a ton and other classes all got absolutely disgusting defensives too so I’m less pumped now
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My biggest issue is getting slaughtered in stuns, but it’s been pointed out that there are a few DF talents that will help with that. Thunderstorm being one.
I also noticed that the world pvp gear has damage reduction on it when people are stunned. Maybe the rest of the pvp gear will have that as well. If that’s the case it would make rogues mad, but classes like Enhancement would be a bit stronger.
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A few points to respond to:
It is no doubt that enhance is getting some shiny new CC tools, having lasso is gonna be wild as enhance. Having earthgrab will be strong as well. It is also no doubt that enh heals (which were already good) have gotten slightly even stronger. Spirit walkers, NS etc. Tons of shiny new things.
However, the fundamental reason for my post is still left unaddressed. Which of these tools is going to stop you from getting 1 shot by rogue mage during a kidney? None of the cool new tools shaman is getting will prevent you from getting 1 shot during a hard cc like kidney shot. Furthermore, while having earthgrab and lasso will be very nice for enh, have you seen some of the shiny new things other classes are getting in their own trees? DKs are straight up getting access to multiple gap closers they had to choose between previously. Monks are getting both the tiger palm dash legendary and escape reality legendary on their tree, in addition to getting all 3 of their movement skills (before they had to choose). Rogues are getting even more insane things than DK or monk. The thunderstorm stun is pretty bad, no reason to give up lasso for that.
Finally, to re-iterate, none of the cool new stuff mentioned will prevent getting 1 shot during a kidney when rogue mage pop swifty.
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Agree. Depends on damage but I guess we’re assuming PvP will be as bursty as SL. I mean a rogue should be able to kill us 70%-0 in a full stun. The 100-0 kinda sucks. Really that’s the only way they can get us.
I guess it’s on healer/teammate the peel you? Idk I agree it’s a bit tough. Thunderstorm is the only move we have for it and it’s not great. Astral shift usable in stun would help alot without giving us too much power. Or some sort of stun protection? Perhaps NG heals double if proced while stunned? That would be cool and still give opponent counter play options.
I think Ele has enough options when not stunned. When in hard CC yeah it’s a bit rough.
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I agree we die in stuns. But I think dying in a stun is supposed to be our achilles heal. And we’re not the only ones dying in stuns. Rogues in particular are just kind of busted these days - having retained their historic cc kit while damage has gotten crazy high relative to health pools.
And I was actually thinking that baseline thunderstorm was better defensively since it knocks away and slows to reduce opponent uptime while you’re stunned. At least we’ll have that plus nature’s guardian which is more than some.
You will find that thunderstorm will be next to useless while stunned because a rogue will just press shadowstrike and instantly teleport back behind you. As far as other classes also dying in stuns I am not so sure about that.
Mages can ice block it. Shadow priests can disperse it. Warlocks can sac for the huge gigantic shield while stunned and they are also getting soul link back and I think they can also seduce the rogue while stunned. Boomkins can barkskin while stunned although I will admit boomkins arent great either but barkskin is something atleast. A holy paladin can bubble it. Mistweavers have the pvp talent dematerialize which is basically the old astral shift blizzard decided to give them. So atleast when it comes to the casters, shaman is actually the only one that will die in the stun to mage rogue. It really isnt fun.
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although I do agree we need something while stunned.
DH/ww/war/rogue will also die in stun w/o trinket.
Disagree with warrior. If they are vs a comp like rogue mage, they can sit defensive stance which is like a permanent barkskin. Its not the best but its something. I also disagree with DH, their talent trees arent out yet so theres absolutely no point in making any statements like this for them yet.
As for rogue/ww, you are technically correct but I mean rogues/ww are the ones doing the 1 shot during a kidney every expansion so lmao.
EDIT: WAIT NO, I take that back, rogues have cheat death, no way they are getting 1 shot during a stun.
EDIT#2: DH tree is out. They have a talent “automatically activate blur when you fall below 35% hp” so yea it is actually just shaman that gets 1 shot during kidney lmao.
I think we are receiving good defensive tools. Lightning and Earth Shield at the same time, 20% DR on ghost wolf (would have to play like a druid and pre wolf most of the time). Thunderstorm would be also very interesting tool, but we would have to bait most movement CDs in order to work tho.
Lasso, grounding, earthgrab and our ring totem also give us a lot of defensive/utility stuff. And a 1 min, HP trinket on earth ele.
Shaman is gaining a lot of mobility which is also a defensive itself.
I think we have good defensive tools but they are not implicit, would require more skill than other classes to stay alive but I believe that’s what makes shamans fun. Also, all is gonna depend on tunning, if we have classes killing people on 2 globals not having an inmune or strong defensive would make shamans worst, but if we have something less bursty, our strong offheals and DR would make us stay alive most games.
I think we are receiving good defensive tools. Lightning and Earth Shield at the same time
How is this a defensive tool? This is an offensive tool that allows lightning shield to be used on top of ES.
20% DR on ghost wolf
No mention of the fact that it takes 4 seconds to even reach the 20% DR. Anyone who plays arena should know this is not a reliable form of defense, if they make the 20% DR instant the second you form swap, then it could be, currently it is not.
Thunderstorm would be also very interesting tool, but we would have to bait most movement CDs in order to work tho.
Failing to understand the point here. We have thunderstorm? uhh. If you thunderstorm a rogue during a stun he will simply shadowstrike back to you instantly. Same goes for monk, DH, warrior, etc.
Lasso, grounding, earthgrab and our ring totem also give us a lot of defensive/utility stuff. And a 1 min, HP trinket on earth ele.
Shaman is gaining a lot of mobility which is also a defensive itself.
With the exception of earthgrab, none of the things you mentioned are new and have existed for years. Lasso is being nerfed to 45 seconds. Shaman is NOT “gaining alot of mobility” can you point to me where the mobility is? You have the option of dumping 4 points in the class tree so that you can use the 5th on gust of wind which is 30 second cd instead of 15 like in legion. You also failed to mention all the loads of mobility other classes are getting
Monks - Gain access to celerity and tigers lust instead of choosing between them. Access to 10 yard tiger palm dash legendary and escape reality legendary at the same time. AND access to snare/root immunity roll legendary. Before they had to choose 1 leggo.
SV hunter - THREE new 40 yard charges on their class tree. PLUS harpoon and reverse disengage for a total of 5 gap closers they can juggle. On top of sprint ofc and binding shot/ steel trap.
Rogue - 2 shadowsteps, 2 shadow dances (during shadowdance press shadowstrike for infinite gap closers), 2 vanishes, sprint, probably other stuff im missing.
Warrior - 2 charges, herioc leap, sprint after leap talent, “execute becomes a charge” pvp talent
DH - lol
So in conclusion I have no idea where this train of thought comes from that “look shaman got something new on the class tree” as if shaman is the only class in world of warcraft thats receiving a new talent tree in Dragonflight.
I think we have good defensive tools but they are not implicit,
Disagree, no we arent.
would require more skill than other classes to stay alive but I believe that’s what makes shamans fun.
Since when are shamans seen as some high skill class? Most people dont see us this way. Lacking defensives does not make your class “high skill” infact I would argue ice block and disperse have the opposite effect, they make mage and priest more skillful when used properly. Shaman doesnt have anything like that.
Also, all is gonna depend on tunning, if we have classes killing people on 2 globals not having an inmune or strong defensive would make shamans worst, but if we have something less bursty, our strong offheals and DR would make us stay alive most games.
This part I agree with 100% completely. However, you contradicted everything else you said prior.
You say if classes are bursting each other fast, then shamans would be the worst, but if we have something less bursty, then our offheals would make us stay alive. But earlier you said shamans are getting good new defensive tools and mobility. This is a contradiction, if shamans are getting good new defensive capability, then why would it matter if classes are bursting eachother, why would that make “shaman the worst class” in your own words? By admitting shamans would be the worst class in a bursty meta you are just conceding that you agree shamans lack true defensive capability compared to other classes lol.
Final comment on the strong offheals, this will depend on whether blizzard decides to keep 50% mortal strikes in the game or not.
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Aren’t ms effects still 25% in pvp and just 50% baseline for pve? That’s how it is now. Would assume it will stay that way. Havoc mortal dance is 50% now because it’s a pve talent now in their talent tree.
50% ms for pvp would totally imbalance healing vs damage. They’re not gonna do that.
Apparently some of them are 25% and some are 50% in pvp. People are debating/freaking out whether its a bug or intended. And people are unsure if wound poison is staying at 40%
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