“Even in m+” – that is to say, even in the situation that most demands hpal to dps, these changes would mean nothing. General PvP, requiring less optimization, means these changes will amount to nothing.
Ah, I see I just misunderstood what you were saying.
No buffs for Feral? That seems odd, given we’re 24th in dps in M+ right now.
if they want it to not be mandatory, it has to cost multiple talent points to offset how powerful it is
I appreciate the theorycrafting but the math looks off.
If 40% of them are doing double damage, it’s not
x(1.4x2)
it’s
x(1x0.6+2x0.4) or just x1.4
So Butchery only goes up to 44M (if you get full use out of every proc). The focus cost reduction doesn’t really matter for Butchery since you’re generally waiting on charges instead of focus.
Mongoose Bite only goes up to 36M but it’s trickier because the focus cost reduction adds a lot more value. If you have a spare GCD it’s a free extra Mongoose Bite, otherwise it’s replacing a Kill Command. Also with the way Mongoose Bite increases its own damage, you’re going to be increasing the average damage per hit of Mongoose Bite from that perspective as well. Let’s say these bring it up to 50M.
You forgot to subtract the old amounts for Butchery and Mongoose Bite before adding the new ones.
Pretty sure 15% crit chance and 15% crit damage is not that strong. If your base crit chance is low, the crit damage has little value. If your base crit chance is high, added crit chance is relatively less valuable.
- 0% base crit
- before: 1x1.0 + 2x0.0 = 1
- after: 1x0.85 + 2.15x0.15 = 1.1725
- relative 17.25% increase
- 40% base crit
- before: 1x0.6 + 2x0.4 = 1.4
- after: 1x0.45 + 2.15x0.55 = 1.6325
- relative 16.607% increase
- 60% base crit
- before: 1x0.4 + 2x0.6 = 1.6
- after: 1x0.25 + 2.15x0.75 = 1.8625
- relative 16.406% increase
I imagine it disproportionately affects your burst damage so you’ll get a bit more value than the 26% uptime amount. Maybe 6% total increase or 30M damage (be sure to calculate from your original damage).
I suspect the auto-casted bomb isn’t actually counted in the casts count, which would put the damage per bomb down to 180M/250 = 721K, meaning 36M damage.
TLDR I think your proposed changes net around 510M damage, still worse.
Butchery and Mongoose Bite aren’t a that much of your overall damage, so they have to be absurdly buffed for the S4 tier set to be viable. Similar to Fury Warrior I think they should just nerf the S3 set and buff the spec.
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Thanks for looking at the numbers, he x2 was The crit damage is 2x. But yes we’d need wide scale buffs, probably a 10-15% aura buff.
You’re cooked bro
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I’ll be honest, I had no idea these even cost mana and cannot even see what the point in mana even is anymore aside from slowing down groups because your healer needs to drink.
Any DPS class should be done away with mana, it’s never an issue for anyone outside of arcane mage and they have a spell for that anyway.
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Agree esp since they wont fix the drain life bug after soul rot and ill go oom in like 3seconds
HEALERS
I don’t mind the Moonfire cost reduction, but you really ought to nerf the top heal spec a bit. Cat form damage stands out to me.
I will happily play more Preservation, but the talent balance is some of the worst in the game; make more builds viable.
Holy Paladin damage is too low. Light of the Dawn buff is nice, but if you are also buffing Word of Glory it still is going to require you to hit 4+ injured targets to be worth spending the holy power on it. This is basically unusable in dungeons because of the short default range, and you’ll never get enough value to justify spending talent points on the range increase. Increase the base range and either buff the healing a lot more, or give it extra mastery scaling so it gets a lot more value when allies are close. Also the hard target cap for raid is yuck.
The new Holy Priest damage feedback loop is still dumb. Fix it. Holy Priest DESTROYS in LFG. Renew is still pathetic.
TANKS
The tank situation is still absurd. Since you haven’t removed 2-chains + 2-silences, you need to nerf the damage and/or survivability of Vengeance (overall or just meta talents).
The previous Brewmaster damage nerf needs to be reverted in favor of nerfing the meta build’s damage. My Brewmaster did mediocre damage before the nerf, haven’t played it since.
Prot Paladin too low on damage. They deal good damage on medium/large pulls with Divine Toll, and with … crickets.
Blood DK needs yoyo health bar removed; more bone shield armor less death strike healing.
Guardian Druid needs better baseline tankiness as well. It gets awkward sometimes because Ironfur costs so much rage.
DPS
A few casters still vastly outperforming. Some of it’s damage, some of it’s survivability. Look at the data.
Survival tier set buffs won’t change a thing. Yall clearly didn’t sim it or do the math. It needs to be an order of magnitude stronger to replace -39 ilvl S3 set (nevermind a -13 ilvl S3 set), and you’ll still have to buff the spec.
Enhancement Shaman does need those buffs, and more.
But most of the melee specs are hurting. Ret is absurdly popular because so many melee specs are terrible (also it’s easy to play):
- Enhancement needs big buffs.
- Survival needs big buffs.
- Frost DK needs big buffs.
- Feral needs big buffs.
- Fury needs big buffs.
- Subtlety needs ALL THE BUFFS.
And one last thing. Affliction might not be the worst M+ spec anymore, but that’s just because you dropped the ball on tier set balance. Affliction has to choose too hard between single target and aoe damage. Barring a rework, you need to nerf those talents and increase the baseline power level of the spec.
3 Likes
This isn’t exactly a problem with holy paladin, it’s more an issue with everyone else not understanding how to maximise your paladins healing. Because of our mastery giving more healing the closer they are, in reality if people knew this they would realise standing closer is better and therefore would not need the range increase on LoD, but no you get hunters who sit in Narnia and complain about low healing.
It’s why when we do things like split groups I try to place the melee with the paladin healers so they can maximise their throughput and minimise how many healers we need, like with Raz, I put one paladin with all the melee and 2 ranged healers on the other side.
If you explained to the group what benefits there are for sitting closer to the healer you would find more often than not taking LoD can be beneficial. There are even websites that analyse logs and can tell you if you should have used LoD or not so you can learn based on who you are playing with if it’s worth taking, handy for premades.
being ranged is a survivability buff tbh
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Please look at the BDK set bonuses again. BDK is doing well damage-wise, but it’s propped up by the legendary axe, and many DKs don’t have that still. Thx.
Are you guys planning on making fury playable or nah
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Woot woot!
Preservation buff 
Can we get some Fistweaver buffs in PvP? Its been a steady nerf train for them since season one. I want to be OP too the final season. Let us have fun please.
Blizzard doesn’t even play this game it seems.
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So did this tuning not happen? Cause the shaman buffs aren’t active according to the shaman forum that devs never look at.
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It’ll help. We’ll still be a bit behind, but it helps close the gap.
Also, aff isn’t nearly as bad as people think it is.
i was just wondering this. im not sure it did. it wasnt in the hotfix notes for today