Draenei DH

Classes Demon Hunter
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There was no reason for there to be more Death Knights, yes. The Legion’s invasion and the events leading up to SL have given them a reason to not just skulk around, hence why now Allied Races and Pandaren can be DKs as well. But between, what, Cata and Warlords? No reason to be there, hence them not showing up in a meaningful way.

Paladins have existed for a while, and don’t just exist to kill the undead. Clerics got their butts whooped by the old Horde and so they combined combat training with divinity to get the Paladin. They don’t have a grand reason to be like DKs or DHs, they’re just holy knights.

It’s also a hell of a lot easier to become a Paladin or a DK than it is a demon hunter. One needs devotion to the light, the other needs you to be raised into undeath. Both way easier than killing a demon, eating its heart, stabbing your eyes out ritualistically, etc…

Both of those have been retconned out. The lore right now is that apart from one individual elf, all demon hunters were recruited by Illidan on Outland. I’m fairly certain all mentions of non-elven DHs came from the RPG anyway which was always non-canon.

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Like… Tauren? Tauren capture the class fantasy of being extremely nimble and quick, darting around the battlefield?

Draenei and Tauren being a dh would be a meme.

Orcs, okay. Humans, okay.

Tauren/Draenei? Lul

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Sigh…didn’t mean to delete the last post, just wanted to edit it. My brain isn’t working yet this morning.

What I meant to say: Draenei can be monks, and they’re even more mobile than DHs. Ever see a male draenei chi torpedo? I kind of want to go make one now just for this.

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Very classic “it makes sense for this race to be one spec, not another, but there’s nothing we can do about it”.

Tauren being all about chi and mastering that to heal others? Just another form of spiritualism.
Draenei, same thing.

A Tauren / Draenei doing backflips? A meme.

A forsaken being a shadow priest makes perfect sense. Wielding the holy light, which would literally burn it? A meme.

Demon hunters are effectively the same in fantasy between vengeance and havoc.

If you want additional races for DH’s, fine. But not a Tauren or a Draenei

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I could also point out that you’re trying to use real world physics to push your argument. A draenei or a tauren doing a back flip is no more unrealistic than riding a dragon, all of the magic that gets flung about, or a warrior dual wielding 2 800-pound maces. And a draenei makes sense from a lore standpoint - their homeworld was overrun by the legion.

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Not really. I’m not using math. Perhaps real world logic?

This isn’t much of an argument. You can’t argue for absurdity simply because we’re talking within the realm of fantasy.
Dragons exist in the universe because they’ve been introduced.
Magic exists in the universe because it’s been introduced.
A Draenei or a Tauren doing a backflip is more of a mechanical compromise than a lore-backed idea.

Sure, they have motivation, as does virtually any other race. But it’s not who the Draenei are. They aren’t warlocks, and they aren’t rogues. They don’t do shadow magic, and they don’t do fel magic.

Pretty easy way to think about it is “if the race can’t be a rogue, it certainly can’t be a demon hunter”.

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28

Chromie Time should mean that any race can be any class. If there are spaceships, time travel, giant swords falling into planets or any other number of absurd “lore” things they’ve added over the years then there’s no reason a new race couldn’t decide to go train to be whatever class they want.

Multiple races decided they wanted to be Monks and went and trained with the Monks, but for whatever reason those same races can’t decide they want to go train with some other class to become that class? But the lore! What a joke.

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The amount of elitism in this thread lol.

Edgelords edit

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30

Sure buddy.

And we should be allowed to enter a time gate that allows us to frolic on the surface of a 1,000 suns 20,452 years into the future while wearing party hats and hi-fiving nzoth, because why not. It’s fantasy.

Lore is important. It keeps the fantasy reasonable and contained. You can always expand it, but not in a way that is beyond absurd. Otherwise, you risk the universe losing credibility. When that happens, people don’t feel as engaged.

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31

What you consider “beyond absurd” I consider common sense. I think race locking DHs to only 2 out of 24 races is absurd and has a lot more implications to the enjoyment of the game than some silly lore justification for why one race can be a class and another cannot.

And I said expand the Lore, maybe you just didn’t understand me. You can add any lore friendly reason for any race being any class and still not come close to the crazy, stupid stuff Bliz has added over time.

This argument of reasonable fantasy and credibility just doesn’t fly when there is so much ridiculous stuff they’ve added and adding in lore for any race to any class is just easy and only adds to the enjoyment of the game for people.

I personally think the idea of a Gnome DH is stupid, but guess what? I only pay for my sub, so if someone wants to be a Gnome DH I absolutely think they should have that option, and Bliz shouldn’t cower behind lore for not allowing that player choice.

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It’s not “cowering”. It’s giving the fantasy universe a modicum of logical grounding.

There should absolutely be additional races for demon hunters eventually, and if blizzard just throws in even a menial lore backstory for doing so, but no, there should not be all class options for all races.

A light forged Draenei warlock? Really?
A Tauren rogue? A gnome Druid?

You gotta respect the universe. At least a little bit.

I did understand you. Did you understand me when I wanted a time gate to the surface of 1,000 suns? Point being, there’s a line between reasonable expansion and outright absurdity. At times the line is subjective. Other times. It’s fairly obvious.

A Draenei dh is one of those obvious times.

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33

I’m not going to argue with you anymore on any thread. You know why? It’s because you want the game to be the way you idealize it to be, and every time someone uses perfectly sound logic to disprove you (ie: you saying they can’t because of physics, draenei can’t move fast and therefore can’t be dh, then someone like me saying draenei have other classes that can move fast and therefore dh makes as much sense as monk or warrior, or that class has nothing to do with movement), you contradict yourself with some weird pretzel logic to say that’s not what you meant and your original argument is still valid.

Draenei should be able to be DH, you just come up with your own weird reasons as to why they shouldn’t. You go ahead and think that. The rest of us are going to continue to disagree.

I’m done dealing with you. Peace out.

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As opposed to what you’re doing right now?
You want Draenei DH’s in the game. I don’t.

What I want is already the status quo. Between the two of us I’m not the one asking for change.

Once again, I corrected you when you said physics.
I said there are certain races that have to make mechanical concession, as in the case of a light forged Draenei being a shadow priest, or a forsaken being a holy priest, or a Draenei being a ww monk.

A Draenei tapping into the spiritual energies of a monk to heal people is in line with the concept of a Draenei. It’s a stretch, but it makes sense. Because that makes sense, you have to make the other specialization available to the class. You can’t limit a monk to only being a certain spec because of its race. This is a “mechanical concession”.

A Draenei consuming a demon and gouging its own eyes out doesn’t make sense. Draenei as a race find that abhorrent. They would be the absolute last race to participate in such a ritual. Draenei aren’t rogues and they aren’t warlocks. It would make no sense for them to be demon hunters.

Well, your clearly upset because someone disagrees with you. I haven’t once attacked you as an individual. I’ve merely explained why there is no lore backing for a Draenei to be a demon hunter.

If this conversation is upsetting you, and it clearly is, I respect your decision to end it.

Dh should eventually be made available to other races. The Draenei are not one of them.

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You forgot to add “in my opinion”. The same modicum of logic should say that I’m a Tauren growing up in a world with spaceships with laser guns and squid monsters and I need to get my hide in some stealth. And guess what? The world is literally filled with Rogues available to train you. Unless you’re saying that Taurens are incapable of using Stealth because of reasons? I can summon demons from another dimension but can’t make myself more quite for some reason. Sure.

Yep, why not? Little orphan Bobby from Argus shacks up with Baker Tim and his wife Susan in Stormwind right next to the Warlock sanctum. He becomes interested in Warlocky things and decides to become one. Wow, I just broke the lore I guess.

Sounds like social inequality to me. We can train you Mr. Tauren to be a Rogue, but we’re not going to because you’re a Tauren. Now get out there and plow my field.

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Yup, you’re entirely right. We’re both opinionated here.

In my opinion, it makes sense that a race would be limited to a selection of classes that, for the most part, coincide with that race’s ideals and backgrounds. There’s always room for expansions to the lore, but as a realist, not all of those expansions are going to happen. If you want to rationalize the existence of a Tauren rogue, you’re free to do so.

It’s not going to happen, but you have every right to want it to, and to express that opinion.

Yes, that’s exactly right. Have you ever spoken with a class trainer that wasn’t your own class?
A mage trainer would say something along the lines of “you don’t possess the mental acuity to handle these Magics”. Trainers will effectively tell you to piss off, depending on which class you’re talking to.

Not too far out of line for a rogue trainer to say “bro. Get out” to a Tauren.

Maybe I’m a priest who wants to be a mage. But “oh no, social inequality”. No, maybe it’s just that my class designates that I don’t have the natural affinities to be another class. Races aren’t any different.

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37

And that’s the point. It’s totally fine to say you don’t think this race should be this class, but don’t try to justify it with lore because it’s just cowardly and stupid. For every example you give why it shouldn’t be allowed, someone can give an example of why it should be possible.

Satyrs can be Rogues. They have horns and hooves. Affinities don’t matter. Again, that’s just justification for not allowing a race/class combo because of laziness by Bliz and doesn’t really have anything to do with the actual implications of a Tauren Rogue wandering Azeroth, earning sweet loot and hanging out with the ladies.

Not touching the NPC thing because that’s silly. You’re now including coding reasons in with lore reasons. There is always a first. The first Druid, the first Warrior, the first whatever. No reason why there shouldn’t be the first Tauren Rogue. The reasons we don’t have them is because of Blizzard and not because of lore. This thread, like many that have come before it, is asking Bliz to expand race/class combos.

We don’t need people popping in saying how Illidan would have seen through the illusion of Charlie the Gnome sent back by Chromie wanting to become a DH and would have pulled a Homelander on him. Just admit Bliz is lazy.

I’m a badass Demon Hunter that’s been slaying fools with my Horde brothers for years, and now one of them wants some of this awesome power and I’m not gonna help them get it? Please. Of course I’ll help you. Of course I’ll train you. For the Horde and all that. Let’s get those eyes out of ya, get you all juiced up with some Fel, go slay some Demons and knock back a cold one. And I’ll gladly do that because I’m not a dick.

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Sounds kind an opinion. No worries. I won’t call you cowardly, or stupid, or a dick. Just not my style.

My example is there is precedent and lore is a thing that exists, and a fantasy world in a mmorpg format needs to have and will always have a degree of logical grounding. Don’t like it? Oh well. Reality is reality.

I don’t consider it laziness. Guess you do. Yet another opinion. A Tauren rogue isn’t going to happen.

No, you brought up “social inequality” as if that’s some argument for why a rogue trainer should agree to train a Tauren.
I quoted a NPC to tell you “yes, that’s exactly right. There is social inequality in world of wacraft“. There aren’t lawyers or HR departments that will assist in disparate treatment cases.

Agree to disagree. We don’t have a Tauren rogue because most people would laugh their a** off in the design room at the request. I know I would.

Illidan turned away many potential recruits. Many potential recruits also died. So, yeah, Illidan would absolutely reject someone.

That’s a fun mentality. It’s not going to enter the design room, because that isn’t how a mmorpg operates. Hate to break it to you.

Yikes.

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↑ This.

Real logic doesn’t apply to this game. Trying to say “DHs can’t be draenei because they shouldn’t be able to jump 30 feet backward” when a draenei warrior can wield 1 metric crapton of metal weapons and armor and jump 40 feet forward from a standstill is a false syllogism.

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Oh, now we’re using logical grounding. Okay. Because there is such a thing as logical grounding in a fantasy world with magic and everything else. We justify this supernatural ability, but not that one because … someone said so? It’s not wrong to ask them to reconsider because a player wants to choose their race independently of their class.

I don’t have a problem accepting that we don’t have combinations because Bliz hasn’t added them, but all this BS about in-game reasons is just that, BS. The point is you can laugh about a Tauren Rogue, but if someone wants to play it why shouldn’t they be allowed to? Because it breaks lore for you or because you think its silly?

So yeah, that’s called being a dick. Because you support the notion of someone not being able to be a class/race combo because it doesn’t jive with what you think the game should be, or because you think it’s silly and support this stance by Bliz. It’s not like people are asking for some really OP stupid thing here. I brought up social inequality just to show how ridiculous this argument is. Because somehow my enjoyment ends where yours begins.

You shouldn’t care what race/class combo someone wants to play. What I’m saying is stop trying to justify your opinion with shallow arguments and just accept that you’re the kind of player that gets upset when something doesn’t align to your idea of what the game should be.

If you seriously think that a Tauren Rogue has some impact on the actual game, then state that. If you think war stomp on a Rogue is too OP then let’s talk about that. But not agreeing with the suggestion of new race/class combos because you think it’s silly or because you find some convienant lore reason to justify your stance? Come on now.

You yourself have been posting your full class revamp all over these forums and people approach you and discuss those changes with you from a quality of life and class improvement perspective. How can we make this thing more enjoyable for people? What can we add or change to improve the experience? This request is no different and yet for some reason people just get triggered over the idea of some class/race combos they think are ridiculous.

If we discuss FB being baseline then we talk about the feeling of the class, the rotation, damage type, what it opens up, etc. etc. and people come in with different ideas, tweaks that could happen, various changes that could improve the class and that’s all totally fine. But what if someone came in and said FB shouldn’t be baseline because there’s no way a DH could do that with their mental fortitude without focusing their training on being able to do it via a talent? Ridiculous, right?

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Hmmm. Don’t think you’ve met many dicks in your life if you think I’m being a dick. I haven’t name-called or in any way shamed you for your point of view. You, on the other hand…

Hard to have a meaningful discussion with you. You were fine at first, but it’s gone downhill after the last few posts.

It’s not up to me. I don’t call the shots. I’m simply offering my opinion that I do think certain classes don’t make any sense being available to certain races. My philosophy isn’t going to change, certainly not by your approach, and it’s one I think blizzard shares.

Of course that would be ridiculous. Our class fantasy is darting around the battlefield. What is blade dance? It’s us darting around the battlefield. The very nature of any conversation I’ve ever had related to the improvement of a demon hunter has always been precedented with “how to capture the fantasy of a demon hunter”. I always consider the philosophy of the class before I even think about design ideas or revisions.

The nature of fel and shadow is antithetical to the Draenei race. The same can be said of Tauren. They are a spiritual people who also honor bravery and strength in battle. They aren’t about subterfuge or evil (at least, seemingly) magic.

You may be of the opinion that a race like this can be a demon hunter. I disagree with you. I think that would take away from the concept of the Tauren race in the game. My argument is not primarily that Draenei shouldn’t backflip or that Tauren shouldn’t sneak around, though I have contended that these would be memes. My argument is the races in and of themselves do not fit the fantasy of the demon hunter class because they don’t. If blizzard wants to introduce that fantasy and lore, they certainly can, but that doesn’t mean they should. Some extensions of lore are more reasonable than others.

Humans? Sure. Orcs, absolutely. They can both be rogues and warlocks. They’re not shy of exploring the unheard of or even evil magic. They both have vendettas against the legion.

I can live with your difference of opinion without resorting to name-calling. Unfortunate you’re unable to do the same, so I’m gonna let this be the end of my part in the conversation. Think we’ve both expressed our opinions well enough and neither of us is changing the other’s mind.

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