Dont Nerf Sapphiron

[Leoniden-incendius]

@Pazorax-1880

When Sapphiron is engaged, the entire raid is affected by a Frost Aura which reads: “Deals Frost Damage every second”

'nuf said

[Cael-kromcrush]

We’re more than 100% stronger than we were back then. Plus, it was the original design so, yeah I thought we’d get to actually see something fixed! Plus they’re going in a new direction with changing bugs that existed back then.

But they’re changing this rather than fixing a bug. They could have monitored the situation and nerfed it if necessary. Especially if they’re getting more funding for classic development, it’s kind of a rushed decision.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Cael-kromcrush

We’re more than 100% stronger than we were back then.

No we’re not, we’re at the exact same power we were when this content was released. Unlike earlier raids people can’t even complain that we’re more powerful than intended.

[Bormes-laughing-skull]

With all the min-maxing that’s been done over the years, he’s probably not far off. Theoretically, this could have been achieved in 2006, the knowledge just wasn’t there. Modern day gear optimizing, raid comp optimization, world buff usage, and strat perfecting has lead to raids being substantially stronger than their vanilla counterparts were going into naxx despite the client being almost identicle.

[Ianarian-grobbulus]

90% of the strength of that is world buff stacking that didn’t really happen in 2006 to anywhere near the same extent.

[Fayld-westfall]

Maybe for the speed running, but not overall. My raid in my guild isn’t a speed run raid or anything, but we did AQ40 in 2:44 without world buffs. I can only imagine that the top guilds would still blast through AQ40 in under an hour even without the world buffs.

[Khlause-kurinnaxx]

@Pazorax-1880

So where do we go from here?

@Pazorax-1880

he agreed that the intended behavior was for the damage to be every second

Follow the intent, because the game is better that way.

[Alessandri-whitemane]

@Ziryus-doomhammer

HAd it actually been ticking once a second it’s entirely possible the damage would have been reduced.

That’s unclear, since the feedback that the Classic team got from the original developer was that he intended the aura to tick every second. Of course if the boss was unkillable it would have been nerfed, but I am confident that top end vanilla guilds could have killed it in the 600 DTPS state. Remember that these guilds had spent many weeks in the instance before even starting Sapphiron progression and would have farmed out full epic frost resistance sets for their raid.

[Alessandri-whitemane]

100% agree, Classic would have been much better off it was based around original intent rather than direct replication of mechanics. We wouldn’t have world buffs, the content would have been retuned to match end-of-vanilla itemization and talents to provide similar challenge to what raiders back then experienced, egregious bugs that would definitely have been fixed back then if discovered would have been corrected, etc.

[Fraudir-mankrik]

Any word on the bug where people continue to take aura damage while in an ice block during Air Phase? They should be “immune”. Makes it difficult to keep people alive if they take damage while in the block since they can’t be healed by direct spells(only via something like Prayer of Healing or totems)

Or double hateful strikes on Patchwerk?

[Cael-kromcrush]

@Alessandri-whitemane

That’s unclear, since the feedback that the Classic team got from the original developer was that he intended the aura to tick every second. Of course if the boss was unkillable it would have been nerfed, but I am confident that top end vanilla guilds could have killed it in the 600 DTPS state. Remember that these guilds had spent many weeks in the instance before even starting Sapphiron progression and would have farmed out full epic frost resistance sets for their raid.

Exactly. At damage every 1 second, this fight would require progression and earning frost resist gear. Now? It’ll be killed within 2 hours at most, with a raid with near 0 frost resist. There’s no way that’s closer to original intent.

This was a feel good nerf because they’re afraid of “gating” a certain % of people.

[Billgatez-kirtonos]

Could an alternate solution be to buff its damage by 5-10% while keeping it at 2 seconds ?

[Alessandri-whitemane]

@Fraudir-mankrik

Any word on the bug where people continue to take aura damage while in an ice block during Air Phase? They should be “immune”. Makes it difficult to keep people alive if they take damage while in the block since they can’t be healed by direct spells(only via something like Prayer of Healing or totems)

Scroll up, they’re fixing it:

@Aggrend-1483

We sure did! That is definitely a bug and we will have it fixed by the time this content is released

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

@Alessandri-whitemane

100% agree, Classic would have been much better off it was based around original intent rather than direct replication of mechanics. We wouldn’t have world buffs, the content would have been retuned to match end-of-vanilla itemization and talents to provide similar challenge to what raiders back then experienced, egregious bugs that would definitely have been fixed back then if discovered would have been corrected, etc.

And you have to be real careful trying to define original intent. That could also very easily include a lot of things.

[Alessandri-whitemane]

@Ianarian-grobbulus

They fixed the bugs and slowed down the rate of tentacle spawns, no health nerf IIRC.

We could at least have gotten the faster spawn rate with the bugs fixed. Not that the “mathematically impossible” DPS check would be relevant at all for Classic raids, but at least it would be closer to the original difficulty level.

[Svengii-old-blanchy]

You know in your hearts that if it was functioning as originally intended it would have been nerfed during the original testing of the raid in vanilla. Even with the massive buff and all the theorycrafting of gear and specs, raids were still getting destroyed on the PTR.

[Xavus-herod]

Also keep in mind that this Vanilla bug would have probably been fixed in vanilla if TBC didn’t take the stage. This is the chance to right the wrong, not introduce another loot pinata.

[Cael-kromcrush]

We killed it within 3 attempts on the PTR with 0 naxx gear. The buff only simulated naxx gear with world buffs, if even that much. It was not impossible.

Plus, people in ice blocks were taking tick damage with no way to heal them, and we still killed it. In a pug. Please make it do damage every 1 second, it’s not impossible.

[Trixiee-blaumeux]

Is there any investigation being done to the issues with the players in ice blocks on Sapphirion?

In vanilla, users in the ice blocks were immune to all damage/DOT ticks - this is verifiable on numerous videos.

On the PTR, users in the ice blocks were not only taking damage from the DOT/other damage in the fight, they were also out of LOS for anyone to heal them - meaning most players would die if not at full HP before they went into the block. Without the 3k HP PTR buff, this will likely kill anyone besides melee with Titans flasks.

[Ianarian-grobbulus]

As has been mentioned about four times in this thread, it’s being fixed.