Don't make the new tier sets BIS for everyone

I love tier sets and I like the idea of adding them for specs that didn’t have them before but I really don’t want to see everyone in the same uniform like we got with expansions. When I played feral druid or shadow priest in classic or was kind of cool to not look like the rest of your class.

I’m not sure if the best way to find a balance here but maybe each spec should have a tier set but perhaps not every raid tier or maybe they introduce some sets that are sub-par so that people still have incentive to wear the other gear.

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If they’re adding new sets, then they will be BiS. There’s no ifs, ands, or buts about it. :expressionless:

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I didn’t think they were adding new tier sets, and leaving everything up to rune selection.

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It’s quite feasible, based on the datamined Warrior and Paladin chest pieces, that the class sets will be spec neutral (only stats) and possibly (conjecture) a quest or npc or something that allows spec specific qualities to be applied.

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Transmog let everyone run around looking unique and special if they wanted.

I don’t think balance and appearance are concepts that need to be mixed.

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You know what is worse than tier sets being Competitive/BiS?

Having them be complete worthless other than for collection purposes

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That is truth. When no dps warrior, druid tank, warlock for all of tier 1, shadow priest, etc., cares about tier drops in the first 2 raids. Thats bad design.

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Transmog is antithetical to classic and should never be added. Player power and appearance are tied together for a reason. They could have designed the game and had gear not have any stats or power but they did. You are powerful and look powerful, you got the rare loot and show it off. You don’t see some random player in a onesie suit and think “Woah they must be really good and doing really hard content or a lot of dps” You think they look cool, silly, quirky and maybe bought a MTX. In retail that’s fine because that’s a whole different world, but never for classic

Why have gear at all? A big part of a character’s player progression is gear from 1 to 60 and that progression of gear’s appearance. It’s how they even designed the gear, so some weapons and armor were made for lower levels, others middle and others high late levels. Getting your first pair of shoulder armor, your first helmet, these are big moments for players. Another issue is alts where now you have low level characters in full tier raiding gear from lvl 60 because of account wide transmog. Yes there’s limitations but I highly doubt people who want transmog even care about that, they just want to look cool. No, you have to earn it. If you have transmog, you should make appearance based on achievements like unlocking great looking gear by doing tough challenges.

With transmog, you can completely get rid of gear having stats. Honestly, they can delete gear right now in retail and put it all into some system like gems that drop from bosses and quests and whatever else. You swap the gems around in your necklace of a number of limited slots or some other invisible character progression system and you can math out over its stats and any other effects. The point the gear exists is to give stats. They could’ve easily said no, let’s just put stats onto some other system and gear is just purely for appearance. That would require changing a lot of design. You normally see the player power on the character. Without it, you can’t. They could add something like ilvl, so next to a character’s player level is their ilvl. Yet you still have the issue of ilvl pumping, or wearing bad gear for you but it has a higher ilvl/gs like you might find in wrath, then leading to more restrictied itemization as well more simpler itemization. Plus, you might lose specific unique effects from weapons, thus ruining what makes items more special and interesting in classic. You see a warrior with the unstoppable force and you know they have a chance to stun. Edge of insanity has its big proc damage. It leads to doing less interesting itemization like retail where trinkets are the most interesting things. Good thing they brought tier sets back. It’s another way to design a game, but its definitely not classic’s original design and intent.

Here’s an alternative to transmog. Costumes. Transmog gives players a reason to collect items for appearances. Costumes, is creating different costume sets from different items and being able to equip them. Even since vanilla people have had RP sets. Basically, free up the bag space so they can do a 3 second cast to put on a costume, but only when they are out of combat and not in instanced content, like bgs, dungeons and raids. Once you enter combat, the costume is taken off. You just need a little indicator that they’re in a costume. It still complicates things because let’s say you’re a rogue and want to pvp in the world. You see some warrior and they have some terrible looking transmog or costume on, so you decide to attack them, then you find out they’re in full naxx bis and you’re about to get wrecked. It just really changes things in the classic setting and won’t work as the way it is implemented in retail.

Transmog at the end of the day just provides a layer of customization but sacrifices other things for it. Players can always get more customization in many other ways. The actual face, hair customization. Mount customization. Player housing. Guild hall. Tinted armor customization. Most of these people want to just afk in cities with a costume/rp set or some old set they collected anyways. My last solution is just make transmog client side only or a toggle so you don’t see people’s transmogs. It might be kind of pathetic though, like taking off goggles and seeing all the filters people put on social media to make themselves look better and feel cooler. Costumes allow people to have the customization to make cool sets of appearances but without disrupting transmog’s affect on player power-appearance relation in pvp/pve and fits the actual RP that when you’re in combat you’re using the actual armor and weapons you’re wearing. I think retail can look silly when you can have shirtless main tanks looking like clowns. Now you have to inspect everyone to actually see what they have on.

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The unique bis itemization of classic came from just accidental design. They just made different unique powerful pieces. Some terribly itemized and others much better, almost to broken levels. They didn’t know what class, spec and role it would be best for and how it would compare to others for every single item. They’d have an idea of course, but it wasn’t as fine tuned as later expansions. I think one way to artificially create this is just focus on unique items and not tier sets. So an item that specifically is made for a class and spec with something similar to the tier set bonus effects that alter your gameplay. Can also make tier armor that is not full 8/8, but more like AQ tier sets being 5/5 or even less at 2/2 or 3/3. Some classes really want to wear their tier gear and others don’t. I’m sure paladins want to wear tier 2 more than the cloth healing robes. If they do different versions of tier sets, they can do recolors based on the specs as well.

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Tier sets for specs are welcomed. Helm, shoulder, chest, gloves, legs, feet. Set bonus for 2 and 4 piece.

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This isn’t true Classic. So that wall of text can eat me.

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nomnomnom, tastes bad.

Either read or don’t reply, but clearly you did read enough to get triggered. Of course this isn’t true classic era no changes. It’s a seasonal classic server with changes and potentially testing what classic wow players want in a classic+ or future seasonal iterations. What the hell does adding transmog do for value in classic? Classic needs class changes first not “I wish my character looked cooler :sob:” Maybe classic and SoD is just not for you. Overhauling everything into retail has no purpose either.

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Honestly I’d like to see them play with the idea of updating the raids every time we drop another raid so the ilvl goes up in the past raids so they can still be relevant content.

That would be kinda cool and we would still get to retroactively use old tier sets if we went back to get it and stops content dying.

I think that’s one of modern day wows biggest issues, every bit of old content might as well be deleted after the fact and it only becomes relevant the next xpac for t mogs

There isn’t anything to develop with transmog. The system already exists. So it doesn’t take priority over your class changes wants.

So because something already exists in retail, you think adding that to a classic seasonal server is good? Why not just add mythic+. Wow shop. WoW tokens. Store mounts. Flying mounts. Cosmetics. It all already exists, just throw it all into classic era. Problem is it doesn’t fit into classic because of design changes over the years. The tech existing shouldn’t be your only criteria. Yeah it’ll obviously be easier than having to develop it. Forcing it into classic would be more harmful to the game and players than good. Who does it cater to? Retail players who already have access to all the same things, so why the hell would they even play it when they have a superior version with more options of transmog and higher fidelity graphics. The point is improving classic’s game in the philosophy of classic design from the lessons over the years, the successes and mistakes of retail’s long list of expansion and changes. These are two different audiences and two different paths.

Of course it would get in the way of the priority of class changes, that’s what the entire season of discovery is about. That’s what the developers are working on and developing. That’s what they’re getting paid to do. It’s not about random things like transmog that add no value. Being lazy and trying to get the most profit from the least effort only works when its intelligent decisions. Transmog is not one of them. Transmog will not create new subs or is something the vast majority of classic players wants. It will only subtract subs and hype. A massive outrage and the minority of retail players playing classic who have become accustomed to transmog will be lost and confused why there’s outrage. It’s not about being something to develop or not, but whether something would be good for the game.

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Well we can see that the new BFD raid will have new items introduced and there might be more pre-raid new or improved 5man/10mans or even some later raids that can introduce more gear we’d wear end game for a time. We also saw some new items professions can make as well and once again, hopefully we’ll have more of those for end game as well.

I can definitely see them doing something with tier sets as well, whether it’s adding multiple stats where a priest for example can benefit from + spell dmg and + healing so it benefits both their healing and dmg specs, or maybe like some items in the game you can do a mouse click to change the item’s effects (ex: priest staff). Of course other options can exist as well like having to pick between different stats an item drops and then have to collect it again if you wanted the other stats as a 2nd set of gear, but probably not the best solution for that one as other people need to roll on gear too that you might be rolling on just as a 2nd gear set.

If they’re adding the rune system in the game, I don’t see why they’d keep the same tier set system that usually only benefited one spec for hybrid classes. Unless they just introduce more single pieces of gear maybe. We know they addressed this more in TBC onwards so they can do something similar in SoD.

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I’ll tell you why. They can’t “beat” retail. But they can this. Otherwise I’m sure they’d like retail just the way it is.

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You aren’t even playing SoD… why are you in these forums exactly? Lol

Enjoy that week break you had?

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don’t give them any ideas :expressionless:

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Retail players who r unhappy with retail coming into sod asking for more retail-like changes.

It’s unfortunately impossible to reason with idiots, they keep repeating the same mistakes expecting different results, not knowing this whole classic project exists specifically due to how unhappy a huge portion of the playerbase is with wow’s direction.

And yet here they are again spreading their idiocy with garbage arguments like " it’s just a season bro chill" , we ’ re paying to play a game we enjoy, season or not it should be the way we want to play it and classic+ is meant to be something with the classic design philosophy not turning the idea of classic and modernizing it.

Similar to how some may say " play classic era if you like it", i’ll flipperino that argument and say: "go play retail or cata since it already has all the changes you r asking for ".

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