Exactly this. I would like to think I’m good at the game now but that didn’t happen until I came back to the game at the start of bfa and decided I wanted to be.
I started in tbc and only cleared kara a handful of times. In wotlk i hardly killed any raid bosses too.
I never struggled to get groups for the content I tried to do though. Dungeons etc.
By having something for people to aim for and work towards. How does the nfl justify the money spent on the super bowl?
A lot of people watch the superb owl. It’s popular content you might say.
A lot of people watch high end wow content. It’s popular content you might say.
So the purpose of raids is e-sports related?
I would say it is to make people interested in the game. Having g that many people watching and talking g about it is possible only a positive for the game. If you had said the reason for the super bowl was to give kids something to look up to or whatever I would have said that too.
World quests and pet battles doesn’t quite generate the same kind of buzz around it.
Even the Game Director Ion said when he was lead raid designer during MoP that LFR opened up raids to more people to see making the costs of continuing to make raids in the future financially viable to the company.
So if LfR goes away there is a 50/50 chance or more that your so called elitist mythic raids are gone with it .
I had this friend in Wrath that I met while spam running Gundrak on my alt to level. It was right before ICC was coming out and all he would talk about was fighting the Lich King. He loved the ICC story and couldn’t wait to get in there. He tried every week to pug a group that would get to the Lich King, but he ended up never getting to fight him. I asked if it bugged him that he never got to fight Arthas and he said it didn’t and that he still loved ICC as a raid.
Do you think he would have gotten the same sense of epicness if he could have just clicked a button as soon as he hit 80 and queued right to the Lich King who proceeded to immediately fall over? I personally don’t think so. Sometimes it’s good for a game to have content that is out of reach for some players. Black Temple and Sunwell were out of reach for me in BC outside of trash runs, and that is my favorite expansion by far.
While I agree that increasing raid participation is a good thing, I think we lost almost all of the epicness that raiding used to have. LFR obviously isn’t the only thing contributing to this, and it’s probably too late to get rid of it now, but I feel like Blizz could have increased raid participation without making it so you can click one button, port to the last boss and 1 shot it with minimal effort.
That was said before lfg was added to the game. It is infinitely easier to get into raids than it was when that was said.
What they should of done is left the old Normal and Heroic alone (current Heroic and Mythic) at the end of MoP with Seige and upped LfR to the SoO difficulty seeing how they were both queable at the time and really not that more difficult instead of making Flex into the current Normal .
But the people who use LFR as their endgame content, or run it just to see the story and finish quests, are generally not the people who are going to be making groups, and may well not care enough to try and pug their way through. Which means removing LFR is going to decrease the number of people who see the raid regardless of whether those players could, theoretically, get groups together.
And that’s going to affect how economically viable raids appear to the developers. I think players who enjoy raiding seriously overestimate the number of people who would raid if only LFR didn’t give them an easy way out.
I can’t accept that people find it too hard to follow these steps
If that is to hard to people then humanity really is f****ed
It’s not a matter of “too hard”, it’s a matter of “I do not like this content enough to create a group for it.” I’m not sure why the concept of “not everyone plays to raid” is so hard for people on these forums to grasp.
That isn’t to make a raid that’s just to join one. Making a raid has about 3 extra steps.
If they don’t want to raid then they don’t have to. Plenty of other content and better gear anyway. Why are they making raids for people who don’t want to raid anyway?
Because when they only made raids for the raiders, and didn’t try to push players into them, fewer people raided and it was difficult to justify the development time. That hasn’t changed since the statement was made.
LFG didn’t change it because the people they’re trying to entice into seeing their raids aren’t the people who care enough to use LFG. They’re the players for whom raiding does not matter, and any friction between them and the raid will make them shrug and go “Oh well.”
Think of whatever content just doesn’t matter to you, be it warfronts or pet battles or whatever. You don’t hate it so much you avoid it at all costs, you might do it if it’s right there, but you aren’t going to seek it out. That’s what raiding is to a subset of players.
Now, personally, I say if people don’t like raiding for whatever reason, don’t push them into raids; don’t put in quests, don’t deliver the story through them, let raids stand on their own for the players who enjoy them. But apparently that subset of people is large enough for Blizzard to have a choice between coaxing them into the raids, or scaling back on raid content. And I personally would rather have LFR and a 12 boss N’zoth raid than no LFR and a 6 boss N’zoth raid.
You can’t say that they were not pushing raiding when bc was advertised with a cinematic off illidan jumping in the air opening his wings and saying “you are not prepared” ( got me to buy it) or in wotlk having Arthas constantly around during levering etc and both of them being huge characters is wc3 and frozen throne.
The accessibility (without considering lfr) has changed drastically. No attunements, no linear progression from raid to raid through catch up gear, plus the lfg tool. It is an entirely different landscape.
If warfronts didn’t have the auto que mode I would totally join or make a group to check it out. (I also think those would be better if they were harder so it wasn’t basically a case of trying not to be caught afk and waiting for the free loot)
If lfr is the reason we are getting a 12 boss raid (I’m actually really happy about this) then why have we had an 8 boss uldir followed by a 9 boss bod and an 8 boss eternal palace?
They wanted people to raid, obviously, but if their efforts had achieved the results they were after, they wouldn’t have resorted to essentially bribing people into raids with LFR.
Uldir, BoD, and EP weren’t the final raid of the expansion. And for all we know, without LFR they could have been 5 bosses, 4 bosses, and 5 bosses, with no 2 boss mini raid. Heck, if it’s true that they were having difficulty justifying development time for raids, a world without LFR might have had no first tier raid, and then just a small BoD and EP for story purposes.
We can’t know; we can only go by what was said to be the reasoning behind LFR. And I don’t think you can dismiss the reasoning they gave just because they subsequently gave us a tool to make forming groups simpler for people who care about raiding, because that tool does nothing for people who aren’t already interested in raids.
Of course we cant dismiss the reasoning but it is foolish imo to think without LFR now it would go to how it was before LFR
Also
Black rock foundry 10 bosses not an end raid
The night hold 10 bosses not an end raid
Throne of thunder 12 bosses not an end raid
I don’t have to read anything beyond your title to know you don’t actually understand anything.
I don’t even consider LFR to be raiding. It’s just a large group of AFKers.