You don’t have High Elves . All you have is Void Elves dress like Blood Elves . Copy and Pasted .
WoD was great for PvP gearing, but it started to compete with PvE for the most accessible. Overall, I think it was still one of the better options we had though. I think it just needed to be toned down a bit relative to how quickly you could cap your conquest. Spending a weekend in Ashran could get you a full set of some of the ‘best’ gear at the time. The ability to catch up though was absolutely what we are missing now. The gear you get from capping conquest now is just sub par.
The big issue is they need to bring down the rating requirement for gear substantially. A +15 is about as difficult to get as getting 1800 in arena, if not easier. 2100 and 2400 should have been about cosmetics. 2100 for elite gear and 2400 for tabard and enchant. Linking 475 gear to 2400 is just ridiculous.
In Wotlk, the weapons were unlocked at 1800 and 2200 and lots of players complained that it created a barrier to higher levels. The weapons were a huge part of your damage or healing. For them to do the same now, but even worse just surprises me.
Even as someone who loves PvP like myself, the game is PvE first. As it should be honestly. I think PvP is an important element to the experience the game has, but I think it should be centered around PvE first. This isn’t to say PvP shouldn’t have a much better and competitive gearing experience, but that PvP shouldn’t be the prior means for players to get gear IF they were wanting to do PvE.
That has happened before and PvP and PvE are not better off because of it. The problem we have is there is constantly huge swings in how we gear in this game. Every expansion feels like we start from scratch with some new system. The system they have now has been bad since day 1 of BFA and they never made any improvements to it.
I mean, sure, that’s understandable. Wanting PvP specific gear though just means a whole new set of issues we have to deal with.
Like, there have been times where PvP gear was the best gear you could have in instanced PvP, then it was garbage in world pvp. I’d rather just have one system that is balanced around both.
So two wrongs make a right? I’m not saying what we have now is good. I have said the opposite. I’m saying the issue won’t be fixed by introducing PvP specific gear.
Right now, even if resil and pvp power were still a thing, gearing through PvP would still be terrible. Honestly, were it not for M+, most people wouldn’t even have a chance at higher ratings because the ONLY way to get 475 gear is to get 2400. The gap between 1800 and 2400 is substantial.
So if you start the season late and want to gear though PvP, that means you’re going to have weeks if not months of gearing to try and get even close to 470. The system right now totally favors players who start week 1 of the season and push rating high. If you get your rating high in the first few weeks, you’re already going to be substantially ahead of your peers. Considering week 1 is the only time in the season that is fairly balanced for gear, starting late is huge.
Do you get that?
The issue with PvP right now is 100% the fault how we get gear through PvP and has NOTHING to do with getting gear through M+. Were it not for M+, most of us wouldn’t even be close to 475 if we only did PvP.
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I get that.
I like the gearing system from M+ and do not want much of it to change.
I agree that the problem is gear acquisition on the PvP side.
But the story seems to be be that balancing these two gearing systems is difficult. I would think a PvP stat would be a good solution, though there could be others.
Templates 2.0, could be one.
One question is if I have 380k hp in an arena, and I go against a 480k hp opponent, does their current system really balance out the damage given and received?
Also the PvP stat could just provide a max of 10% bonus. Wouldn’t that be enough to make desirable for pvpers and give them an edge over M+ only players?
Nope, thats not how the system works /10.
Except you are wrong, pvp stats were implemented in the burning crusade and lasted through mists of pandaria, in warlords of draenor or they changed it to pvp gear increasing Ilvl to higher than heroic raids in pvp content and pve gear being capped at a lower ilvl in pvp content, as well as pvp set bonuses that reduced damage taken from players, then in legion there was no need for separation with the failed template system and that killed most participation in pvp so now blizzard just doesn’t care about those of us who enjoy pvp
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As someone who also does both, I agree with the pvp stats being bad…
But I also want PvP gear to be balanced for once.
While I know WoD gets hate, it did one good thing in balancing gear.
The gear would scale to a certain level in PvP combat (Heroic or Mythic IL’s, I can’t remember). This gave everyone the same gear advantage while also being able to choose what stats you wanted on your gear. The gear was also easy to obtain, making the PvP scene about PvP and not about who has the best OP PvE trinket, gear, etc.
This is how I wish blizzard would go about it. This is just my opinion on it though.
You’re probably right about pvp being dead . Look at Swifty , i haven’t seen any of his new videos towards pvp .
Balanced around what? Just clarifying. Ease to obtain? Power?
While it was great for PvP, it created a huge back lash from PvE players. Getting PvP gear in WoD was way to easy compared to PvE. So PvE players felt ‘forced’ to gear up in ashran so they could PvE. PvE should be the primary route to gear in the game. That said, I totally think PvP should be another route, by not necessarily the easiest one. It should be tough. What it shouldn’t be is an RNG fest like we have now.
You gotta keep em separated! pvp stats RIP 2006-2014, fyi pvp in vanilla was, and is pure garbage bad, really, really bad argument saying it didn’t have pvp stats.
This is a non issue in the current PvE gearing system, we didn’t have any infinitely repeatable gearing systems in WoD like we do now with M+.
Well currently there is no balance whatsoever in terms of raw power on gear.
When a PvE trinket is a big win condition in a competitive PvP match, something is wrong.
Balancing the gear you use in PvP makes balancing the classes easier overall.
Just like the WoD trinkets, 2 set would make you take 10% less damage from players. This solves the trinket issue. The gear issue was solved by the scaling system put in place on the gear.
I can see both sides of the debate though.
I didn’t PvE much in WoD, but from what I remember, PvP gear was incredibly weak compared to PvE gear.
The PvP gear in WoD was meant to be easier to get, mainly because they wanted you to focus on PvPing rather than needing to have gear to be even remotely decent.
Again, I didn’t PvE much so idk how much the ease of getting PvP gear made
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Pvp trinket is BiS for multiple classes/specs.
Pvpers will gain a slight advantage in SL because they can take the covenant that favors PvP, while others will have to choose AoE or ST damage boosts.
So ideally I should let it teeter on the edge until the reset
Casual play, you get one chest a week and thats how its intended.
MoP was one of the best times for pvp, so yes, bring pvp stats back.
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A little history before my point, pve has always been favored we can agree on that, but through MoP pvp players have been able to be separate and happy and pve players could do their thing and be happy, after MoP is when things went down hill, what happened in MoP that changed things? Ion Hazzikostas. Ion is a massive pve player, has been since vanilla, he focuses on pve, and when he saw pve players complaining about having to do battlegrounds for one legendary quest in MoP he decided that they shouldn’t ever feel forced to do pvp. This has been implemented over the expansions in such a way that dragon slayers can do any content they want and be top dog so they never feel like they aren’t having fun. The cost of this is the happiness of the pvp community, the roles are reversed, pvp players are forced to do content they don’t like to be competent, except no one cares because the pvp community is now so much smaller that it doesn’t matter, we have such a small impact on Ion’s metrics that we don’t make a difference. Speaking of metrics, this new system forcing pvp players to pve for gear only boosts pve metrics, and since robo-Ion judges fun by metrics then obviously since we are doing pve content we must be having fun.
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Versatility is clearly a pvp stat while not being useless in pve
After WoD*
While WoD didn’t have PvP stats, it had something else, pvp gear that was quite a bit higher ilvl in pvp then pve gear. IIRC the best pvp gear was 10 ilvls higher in pvp then the best pve gear.
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Less so, but hardly a non-issue. In WoD you got the highest level of gear from grinding conquest. For every week the season progressed, 1k conquest was added to your total cap. So if you came back 10 weeks late you could farm 10k conquest and get more then half your gear from PvP. This gear was as good as you could for some specs.
It would still be an issue.
For sure. That has almost always been the case. Not saying it’s right, but PvE gear has always had some impact on PvP. The easy solution is just to nerf that stuff at it comes, rather then making blanket systems or nerfs to everything. I think PvE gear should still be good for PvP. The problem is just the in season, or mid expansion changes to help balance. For whatever reason, blizz has avoided doing that most of the expansion.
Yea, that was just a general balancing thing. I think some PvP specific traits or set bonuses are good, but I’m totally fine if it’s a choice between a PvE bonus or PvP one. The problem right now is not that PvE gear is so good, but the PvP isn’t great. Were PvP more competitive, players would feel much less inclined to grind PvE gear.
It was mostly ashran. The conquest gear you got from capping was easily done with farming ashran for a weekend. This gear was of equivalent ilvl to PvE gear. not always itemized the best for every spec, but for ease of access it was absolutely the best route for gear. While you might replace it later on, gearing through PvE was pretty meh.
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The pvp community wants pvp gear to be best for pvp not because we want to exclude anyone, but because we want to feel rewarded for being the best that we can be in our chosen part of the game, we want to work as hard as we can to be as good as we can in arenas, the same as raiders want to push as high as they can to be the best they can be in raids, we want the same thing for pvp that pve players get in pve, we want to feel like our efforts are rewarded, but we feel like we are being spit in the face for our efforts because our effort doesn’t matter when Bobby the mythic raider decides “I think I’ll do a couple arenas” and then wins because of gear disparity that we can’t overcome unless we also spend most of our time slaying dragons, that’s the real issue here
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