You argue tank doing more damage is good because it makes keystones faster.
I counter with: dungeons would go even faster if tanks started one shotting mobs.
So, it isn’t tank being stronger is good, but rather at what point do you consider “too much?”
And why is your line of “too much” better than anyone else’s?
Well, that’s a little dishonest. I’ve never seen people laugh as hard as they do when a Brewmaster awkwardly announces their presence to tank for the group.
If you didn’t play cheap rhetorical games and just flat out stated your points from the beginning it wouldn’t be nearly as frustrating to talk to you.
I have an easy answer to when it’s “too much”, and that is the point at which it’s more viable to actually replace dedicated DPS specs with additional tanks in groups. Since tanks are nowhere near that strong, DPS roles are not under threat and this entire question is a non-issue.
You can already do that in +10s.
5 tanks can time a key.
Content is tuned absurdly low.
Case in point.
Alright, it’s time to just ignore you so I don’t waste any more of my time.
Tanks are not supposed to dps as good as dps, or heal(heal others) as good as healers. Most buttons pushed have to contribute to tanking.
I’ma take a nap, maybe I’ll see the genius of this idea later. Right now I don’t like.
The bad old days when tanks were passive (Vanilla, BC, and Wrath minus DKs which it was all then standardized in Cata) were terrible tank designs. Not only were tanks VERY rigidly designed with very clear tanking niches that coincidently (not) let warriors be the shining stars that massively fueled their main character syndrome egos but it also was stupidly binary gameplay. Does your tank have the gear? Yes. Did the tank hit their abilities? GG DPS doesn’t pull aggro and get squished.
Tanking with AM is already a massively increased skill check and enough finesse is in modern encounters that reward active knowledge and skill expression…especially in mythic+ where a tank (and group) is insanely active and constantly mentally engaged and expressing the highest demands on skill on even basic trash.
The problem, like most things in WoW, are RAIDS. Raiding never caught up to mythic+ when it comes to demands of players and ESPECIALLY tanks. To this day, nearly EVERY raid fight demands a tank to press taunt when a condition is met and has super easy to predict/track/time tankbusters that “maybe” warrant them pressing 1 of their many mitigation abilities to counter.
Tanking raids is insanely boring because even if it is a mechanic-dense fight, the tank is RARELY tasked with doing anything but the movement ones and by far gets the most leeway in screwing them up and surviving.
And I’ll be the first to admit I don’t even know HOW to fundamentally change things so raid tanking is less boring and engaging…going back to the bad old days of just making everything a monster gear check (or even niche when it came to resistance gear) isn’t the answer…and it DEFINITELY isn’t throttling their damage where we’re just back to throttling bursty DPS.
My gut says there should be some threat → damage converting ability since threat is really not a factor anymore outside the initial few seconds of a pull. This gives tanks a way to turn an essentially guaranteed resource back into a mechanic with decision making potential as well as allows skill expression (and group coordination) where tanks can work to balance mitigation and DPS to squeeze more out of them in a world where they are barely tasked with anything in the first place.
But forum tanks, just like healers seem to despise any form of skill expression related to their role. When was the last time tanks didn’t complain about nerfs?
Tanking, like healing, relies on being weak to be fulfilling.
Maintaining mits is part of being a tank, no, I would not like this idea.
Only some tank specs are designed like this, also. Blood DK is not built around maintaining a buff like shield block or ironfur. Bone Shield is kind of analogous, but it is maintained fairly easily through just a normal rotation.
Ain’t this true for all roles though? The playerbase us quite entitled, and most people dislike suddenly getting weaker.
I’d just appreciate if the bugs were fixed tbh, tanks as they play feel pretty good (at least the four I play), even if tank mechanics are a bit too forgiving this season.
Agreed. If I, as a tank, run zero risk of death at key level X whereas my DPS/healer faces dangers it just feels like I’m there to point my team in the right direction, not actually play the game.
I’ve always been a firm believer that tanks should take very little damage but also do little damage and healing, so I’m all for passive mitigation. I’ve always found it very weird that a tank like BDK exists where it doesn’t have much actual damage mitigation compared to other tanks but heals all the damage it takes instead.
At this point you might as well just remove the role. It’s kind a waste of space.
(I’ve argued for removing the tank role for other reasons.)
I think the tank role is important, just that its current “passive” mitigation, like constantly keeping Shield of the Righteous or Demon Spikes up isn’t very engaging imo. I’d rather that part of the mitigation be passive, but still with big defensive cooldowns available like Metamorphosis or Guardian of the Ancient Kings for example.
The purpose of the tank is to pull aggro, get hit, and not die.
If they are to be juggernauts at the top of the parse with healer focus and plate armor, there is no need for the class category of DPS.
The CDs are to keep tanks interesting and engaging. I am willing to bet most tanks would be unsatisfied if their playstyle was just alternately hitting single target and aoe taunt.
But if they don’t reduce damage actively, don’t do damage, and don’t heal. Do they do anything relevant other than just exist?
Sounds boring.
They’d still do damage and healing, just not as much as they do now, but I was never OK with the absolute ridiculous amounts of healing a tank like a BDK can do or when tanks are doing too much damage like Warriors were doing before the nerfs this season. They are also responsible for disrupting mobs, positioning, holding aggro, etc.
Blood dk healing, isn’t actually healing. It’s just a badly designed tank spec.
They’re not. If you’re getting out-damaged by a tank, you’re bad at the game. Full stop.
All of you non-tank mains who are saying that tanks need to be aggro bots that do no damage or have no group utility like self or off-healing and just need to hold threat and press buttons not to die in order to be fun have no idea what you’re talking about.
Thank god you people don’t develop the game.
Depends if your idea of fun is an ultimate power fantasy and nothing less will do.