Does the Tank Spec Need a Change in How It Functions?

Community General Discussion
1

To preface, this is just a question for discussion. I am neither right or wrong. I am not presenting any factual information. Just some ideas on the Tank Spec Functionality.

So a long while back they designed tanks around Active Mitigation. These are the things like Shield Block, Shield of the Righteous, Ironfur, Death Strike, Purifying Brew, Demon Spikes. The abilities which are the builder, spender type, that tanks need to keep as close to constant uptime on, to feel tanky.

I feel like at this point the Tank role is now, encumbered by this design. What I am thinking about, is how would tanks feel if, we just baked 100% uptime of these abilities into the specs, and standardized the damage reduction amount average, and changed the builder/spender aspect to debuff the enemies and/or deal damage.

There would still be the big defensive CDs for Tank Busters, or when in danger. The number per spec would have to be a little evened out. But, just by virtue of being in tank spec, you are tanky, but every tank would have a generally solid ability to withstand damage.

I know this idea would really shake things up, but when I am playing a tank spec, keeping up the active mitigation and layering it with defensive CDs for big damage events, doesnt feel compelling. It is just a maintenance buff gameplay style, and you still pop your defensives on a rotation. If the active mitigation was baked in, I feel there would be more room to iterate on the specs and make them a little more fun.

What if instead of builder, spender to keep up mitigation, it was builder to spend on a damaging ability, that decreases the melee attack speed of enemy/enemies in melee range, for 4 seconds. Or slows the cast time of enemy spells by 30% for 4 seconds? Spend some energy on Smashing a Keg of blinding brew on enemies, increasing their miss rate by 30% for 4 seconds. Having a Paladin spend on a resplendent judgement on an enemy, causing attacks against the enemy for the next 3 or 4 seconds to heal the attacker for 5% of the attacker’s max heath.

So design some abilities where tanks would use their builders, then have a few spenders that they can use, to affect enemies, or even aid their group. The spenders would of course have CDs, so they would be situational decisions. Then every tank would also get a pure damaging spender, so that there isnt a overcapping problem. And again tanks would have their 3 or 4 personal CDs to use for tank busters or large damage events. But, the tanks themselves would feel as if their active mitigation was just up. (Subject to tuning, as some active mitigations are very strong.)

There is of course the risk, that it would homogenize tanks too much, to where there isnt much difference from tank to tank. I think it could potentially open the door to make each spec have much more flavor. And by virtue it would make them play a little closer to how DPS specs play. Which is objectively more fun than tank specs.

There will always be a Meta tank, and balancing will always be problematic, but the tank balance would be based less on the base survivability of the tank, and more around damage and utility output. With all tank specs basically having a base mitigation level, and not having to keep up an active mitigation.

What are the thoughts on this?

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I mean it’d be cool to not have 90% of my specs power be Deathstrike

Also bone shield is stupid

2 Likes
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My thoughts? Reduce tank dmg and add threat coefficients to their rotational abilities. If you want to DPS you should have picked a DPS not a tank.

2 Likes
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I feel like tanks should have their gameplay primarily revolve around tanking and mitigations, rather than being a dps spec who is the designated target for the healer to dump into.

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Whatever is done with tanking, I think we should make Brewmasters suffer more. I know they are crying for attention and for good reason, but I mean, they are monks. What are they going to do, show more aggressive passive resistance?

6 Likes
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Feels a little hostile and missing the point. As if you didnt read the post. I play DPS and I play Tanks, and dabble into healing as well.

When I am playing the different tanks, the gameplay loop of builder/spender to keep up an active mitigation to live, just doesnt feel compelling to me. Its fine. But, after tanking a few keys or a raid, I need a break and want to play a DPS. And at least the reason for me is that DPS specs just feel a lot more compelling to play. Its fun lining up burst windows, and using the different DPS synergies that rotationally happen with specs.

DPS feels objectively more fun to play to me than a tank. And I do like tanking. But, it does get boring after a bit to me, as rotationally there doesnt feel like there is much depth. Spam builders, keep active mitigation up, rotate CDs for damage events, stun/interrupt. There is a lot of fun with rounding up pulls, positioning them and setting the pace through the dungeon. But, the actual button pressing and ability usage? It just feels dull.

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Then play DPS? Not really understanding the problem here. You want to bounce between the two archetypes, go for it?

2 Likes
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I did read the post, however a big chunk of the issue in wow is how only the tanks blur role lines. DPS can’t tank, Healers can’t DPS, yet tanks can do it all. Ran a +10 where the prot pally was out dpsing a mage…

1 Like
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I would like to see the tanks get a utility/QoL balance pass. I know they are all fine and viable, but it seems like some have a ton of helpful tricks to make things more smooth in general, while others don’t get much with no real upside to make up for it.

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95% of my gameplay is managing mitigation. If you want that “baked in” all I’d be left is spamming Shield Slam, Revenge, and Thunder Clap.

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DPS cannot tank the entire dungeon, they can reduce incoming damage. Healers cannot out-damage a dps spec, but they can do damage.

That speaks more to the mage than the tank.

5 Likes
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Way ahead of you, healer forgets I’m even here

1 Like
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I’ve mained Blood before. I wouldn’t want to be involved in what that healthbar did either honestly.

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14

I’ve played with the same healer for years now

She doesn’t even look at my HP bar anymore and only knows there’s a problem cuz I say uh oh in call

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15

Soloing stuff as a tank is enjoyable, so absolutely no. The only change I’d accept is giving every one of them a strict choice between defensive and offensive spenders large enough to really matter. None of this death striking that accomplishes both at the same time. If you want a heal, you death strike. If you want something that does damage, death coil.

When tanking is fun and rewarding, there are more of them around to carry the braindead dps to victory.

1 Like
16

Is there a time when active mitigation isn’t on?

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It depends on the mitigation and the activity. You don’t generally want 100% uptime on Shield Block in raids if you are only going to be taking hits ~50% of an encounter, so you can spend talents that give you more uptime elsewhere. Ironfur is similarly not worth keeping up if you aren’t going to be getting hit.

In M+, you generally want your mitigation up at all times in combat unless you’re somehow not taking damage (kiting like mad, immune, happy hour)

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Read the post. I do go and play DPS. I just dont find tanking for long periods fun. I find the nature of how tanks currently work lacking when compared to how DPS work.

Except for the parts where, you keep and possibly gain large defensive CDS, and situational spenders which can debuff mobs to varying degrees and effects. So instead of managing your base active mitigation, you are managing when you want to debuff mobs, buff your group, or deal extra dps.

Raid tanking is less fun than M+ tanking. When you arent trying to keep your active mitigation up tanking something, you DPS. But its not really a engaging DPS rotation.

I see. I wasnt advocating for tanks to do more DPS. I was advocating for them to feel closer to how all the different DPS specs feel. But instead of big DPS spenders, they have situational spenders. Instead of resource management to just keep a mitigation up, they manage their CDs for big damage events, and utilize a builder spender to aid their group or debuff the enemies they are fighting, or spend on a DPS ability.

Thats what they are now for the most part. When you are taking damage, you job is to keep your mitigation up and rotate CDs. Effectively keeping a maintenance buff up as much as possible.

I think what I am saying is that I enjoy tanking and the role of a tank. But, I find the maintain mitigation aspects of the role less engaging than when I am playing a DPS. Healing feels fun, and stressful, but fun, because of the amount of agency you have with your spells and how and when to use them.

With tanking, Your agency is when to use personals. The stunning or interrupting ect, is part of every role. But after the agency of when to use personals, its kind of just keep hitting your active mitigation.

19

That myth since end of DF? :o:

(I jest)

@OP: I’ll honestly have to dwell on this one more. My initial thoughts on it are that it allows for good skill expression with a good tank. That’s something I enjoyed when tanking in other games. I think it might make the role easier too which is probably also a plus.

20

Tanking is weird because it’s basically a “lesser DPS” that’s harder to kill.

More utility generally, but you’re still ultimately doing the same stuff as the DPS players, just making sure stuff is hitting you instead of them.

Healing is the one role that is actually pretty different.

I think Aug was an experiment to see if they could add a more healer-esque playstyle that buffed DPS instead.

Obviously it didn’t pan out, but you can see they were trying for more interesing roles.

I honestly think the support idea is fine, just don’t limit it to one class/spec, lol.

Like, Paladins of old (Vanilla) were basically supports- their buffs were amazing but their DPS was trash lol. They were still brought along, because overall they helped.

Oh, also it doesn’t help thank tanks are near-useless in PvP. I do think something needs to change there.

Taunts working in PvP would be pretty cool. Imagine saving a flag carrier or something by taunting someone off them.

1 Like