The tanks were all designed before M+ become a big thing. Veng is still the newest tank and it came out the same expac where M+ was created and before the player-based metas and modern dev design around it formed. Every other tank in the game is older than M+.
As a result we are not on equal footing. For the last couple expacs M+ has been dominated by Veng and Protpal, because they are the two tanks with the most utility and control. This was fine for raids because control rarely mattered and groups were generally big enough that you could assume every buff would be present.
Not helping matters is that Blizz is really bad at making this a tradeoff. Maybe, for example, Protpal could have a lot of utility but low damage, while BDK has low utility but high damage. But this is often not true either, Protpal has historically been a high damage tank while Blood is often low damage. There is no correlation between tank survivability, utility, and damage, the best tank tends to be the one that has the most of all three at any given time.
Then thereās the fact that actual spec design is somewhat antiquated. Blood was originally conceived under the notion that itās strength would be self-sustainment, itās a ridiculously good spec at keeping itself alive -something that was a novelty in the WotLK-MoP era where other tanks were damage sponges and needed a constant source of external healing. But around season 2 in Shadowlands, this became standard design, with every tank being self sustaining. Blood lost itās niche and was not compensated.
Or you have Brewmaster, whoās Stagger mechanic drastically changes they way they interact with damage and can trivialize a lot of things other tanks canāt -and Blizzard has no idea how to handle this, so they just keep Brewmaster garbage tier so they donāt have to deal with it.
On top of that, for the most part Brewmaster has their defensive abilities. Purifying Brew, Celestial Brew ect. Which are largely separate from their damage dealing abilities. So they are just doing a DPS rotation for the most part, then press a defensive button. There isnt really a lot of synergy.
And I agree, Brewmaster has been one of two things. Overpowered or Underpowered. It is either the strongest tank by a large margin, or on the bottom end of tanks. It is just extremely hard to balance. I think it needs a rework.
Or both; the strongest in raid but the bottom in M+ (I know it isnāt the best in raid right now, but it typically performs well there and poorly im dungeons)
Iāll have you know that whining is my favourite activity and I am prepared to ramp up production.
(BTW, I finally got my engineer up and running and Iām making loads of parts now! Thanks for your tips last month. The hardest part is other people dumping hundreds of parts every few minutes)
Might be a good idea to hold onto some of those parts as the patch is coming up soon and prices might jump up a bit. They also jump when crests are uncapped. I could be wrong though, sometimes the market doesnāt always do what I expect. Lol
You are getting very low IQ responses to a very reasonable thread. I think tanking and healing are in terrible spots right now, but being well received because of the contrast of coming from an even worse spot. I would love to see a resurgence of the two at the same time. That, and reverting the stop changes
Peak tanking, imo, was dragonflight s3. Peak healing was shadowlands.
No. Tanking is all about how you handle incoming damage. Making it all passive with the exception of a singular CD for that one tank buster every 45 seconds just makes it so you have 4 DPS in groups with a healer primarily focusing on one of those 4.
Soā¦DPS specs?
Warlock curses exist
Rogue poisons
DH Darkness
These things already exist.
Tanks already have theseā¦im really startinf to question if you actually play tanks like you claim
Oh, idk about that brother. I feel like I am just constantly healing in all the new dungeons. Like I honestly am healing almost every second of them. Priory being most egregious.
This is essentially a defensive with a baked in attack. A much better option would be to design tanks similar to prot warriors (or guardian druids), where they can choose to spend their generated resources (rage) either on damage (revenge) or more defensives (ignore pain). Having the spender always do some offensive and some defensive removes layers of complexity, kind of how VDH spenders all do damage and heal.
This sounds like a bad idea to me. I donāt think itās a good idea to change the most common way tanks interact with the game to be something other than their main role.
Tanks should not perform the majority of their role passively.
Priory is the most fun dungeon to heal for sure even if the first boss is a snooze.
A lot of others, especially bosses, just donāt deal much damage, or itās just 1 quick aoe burst you heal up which turns more into a defensive check than healing throughput check.
Tanks canāt DPS well enough to replace DPS or heal enough to replace healers. With equal gear and skill at their class, there is no way a DPS player should be doing less damage than a tank.
Group utility and decent damage numbers make tanking fun and rewarding as a role. Taking that away and making them threat bots because some DPS players are bad is a bad idea.
Any DPS who are doing tank damage or worse are literally being carried to begin with. You will feel every key where one or more DPS players are doing less damage than the tank, unless thereās another DPS player who is so good that theyāre making up all the difference.
Tank survivability is not an issue at the moment, as all tanks can live just fine in content that theyāre geared for. What makes groups choose one tank spec over another is the utility they bring, and the damage they can contribute.
Because anyone whoās not completely neurotic is going to see a tank doing good damage on the meter and think, āgood, this key is going to be that much easier to time,ā instead of, āthat tank should be doing no damage! Iām the damage dealer here and Iām feeling threatened!ā
This is the only way you ever speak to anyone. You constantly rely on this rhetorical tactic where you reduce whatās being said into absurdity and argue against that version of it as if the issue is binary.
You donāt think tanks being stronger is a compelling argument in favor of what? Can you even articulate what this conversation is about at this point?
Iāve said this before but itās pretty difficult and seemingly not very worthwhile to even communicate with you.
