I agree fully on Momentum; I prefer to have my utility abilities remain as such. My point was that the talent tree has many ways of increasing complexity in the rotation- it’s a viability issue not an availability issue.
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I for sure think they could use a rework.
I’ve always wanted a spell for demonic hunters along the lines of slice-n-dice. Something to increase attack speed or haste generation. Since Demon Hunters feel super sluggish and weak with low haste numbers. I definitely wouldn’t mind a new talent being added that boosts haste or attack speed. The passive that gives haste after eyebeam is nice but it would be better to have a speed buff at all times. And a spell that is a more reliable AOE attack than blade dance. Partly because blade dance barely does any damage and is an 8-second CD. I’d personally like Blade Dance CD to be removed and just give it like a 25 or 30 fury cost. At least you could use it more often in combat and would add more variety to a fluid rotation. I think if you got creative with it you could come up with some neat reworks to their spells that met the power level of rogues or warriors.
I remember in Legion they said Demon Hunters are the most agile class. They’re not. Rogues are. Two movement boosts (one being a talent), and slice-n-dice. They feel way quicker than Demon Hunters and have faster-paced combat. Demon Hunters feel a bit like a slower fury warrior especially in regards to the rotation since pretty much all your core abilities have CDs. Most of the time playing Demon Huner Havoc is spamming Demons’ Bite and Chaos Strike. The whole rotation is honestly pretty boring.
Oh, and the leech is pretty much totally useless. I wish it was at least 50% with the talent.
Blizzard has largely nerfed the living hell out of Demon Hunters post-Legion.
This is the big thing, all the active talents are non-competitive.
Glaive Tempest is OK, but doesn’t really have any connection to the rest of the spec.
Essence Break doesn’t hit hard enough on its own, and the debuff isn’t strong enough, long enough, or both.
Fel Devastation… no wait that’s not the name… Fel Bombardment… no that’s not right…
Oh…
Fel Barrage, the talent so terrible no one ever remembers its name. I don’t know the other classes but I’d put this one forward as the worst tier 7 talent in the history of the game. The only way the Developers could have done a worse job is if the damage was bugged and hit only friendly targets.
Just my imagining for tuning changes;
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Essence Break’s damage increased to 100% of attack power (from 60%) and the duration of the debuff increased from 8 to 12 seconds. Damage increase applies to all Chaos damage.
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Fel Barrage changed to an instant cast spell with no channel, still the same 3 second duration.
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For both Glaive Tempest and Blade Dance increase the damage cap number from 5 to 8 to match Fel Barrage. Or reduce Fel Barrage to 5 and increase the damage to 40% attack power. Lets have some consistency here, either way is fine. Less targets more damage per, more targets less damage per.
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Death Sweep damage type changed to Chaos (was Physical).
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Demon Blades damage type changed to Chaos (was Shadow).
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Felblade damage type changed to Chaos (was Fire).
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Immolation Aura damage type changed to Chaos (was Fire).
I have no idea on the balance, don’t really care if it’s OP. The concept here is that with this off spec we’d line up Eye Beam, Essence Break, Fel Barrage, Glaive Tempest, and Blade Dance for an AE burst damage window at 1 minute intervals that should also be good for single target.
Also rationalizes our damage type to either physical or chaos, which should boost Mastery’s value.
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I’m going to avoid talking about numbers because, let’s be honest, it’s relative. All classes, all specs, should be made to be competitive. Numbers don’t mean much in terms of class identity.
DH seem to have been designed in a rush taking Monks as template. And Monks… look like Inverted Frost DK. It’s one button spam requirement in order to do anything worth doing. Very different from Retri, for example, that does have Holy Power to dumb on Templar’s Verdict, but multiple skills that feel good to generate them.
Same with the souls mechanic. Just pointless carbon copy to mimic Monks. These things are nearly invisible when they appear and in nothing to gameplay. Vengeance makes use of them all the time but… is it really necessary for them to be on the floor and not function as soul shards or some type of charge? And I can’t help but feel like there’s a conflict in soul usage because generation is quite limited while multiple abilities can use souls for bonus effects.
Metamorphosis is another thing. Meant to be a big aspect of being a DH, but nothing meaningful changes. No new abilities, no change to gameplay, no changes to utility, nothing. Just a model with a generic damage boost.
“Oh, but we changed the icons! So it’s different, see? Now shut up and buy our stupid expansion!” - Blizzard
/\ This is what I hear everytime I go into Meta.
And what’s the deal with punishing abilities for Monks and DHs? Why Fists of Fury have a channel if they went and removed the stun (along with the ‘1 sec 100% dodge’ from Blade Dance, which, btw, made both classes into punching bags)? Eye Beam can get away with it as long it isn’t talented, but Fel Barrage is still awfully similar to FoF. Meanwhile, Glaive Tempest is stuck to the very spot you cast it. It’s like they have this perception that both classes “move a lot” so “let’s make them pay for it”, but all I can think is “Mages can do better.”
That’s it for now.
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So we are not the only spec that has used one talent without fail for multiple expansions. A rework i would say we need to be relooked at
Yes. Our kit doesn’t scale, our only cooldown is held back by a talent, we have no AoE spender, and Eye Beam is still square root capped.
The original concept of DH in Legion was really dope. The old fel barrage, the dot aspect to eyebeam, and the dot aspect to Master of Glaives all were very satisfying abilities/talents to use.
Another issue, and it is one that a lot of classes suffer from is the resource management aspect. Using spenders vs. pain builders gives classes challenges to moderate damage vs. defense.
The talent tree has talents that should be consolidated or non-applicable. Too many talents that are used to gain fury but non that uses fury. The build I have now is generating too much fury and there isn’t anything that will allow me to dump in all to use either offensively or defensively except for spamming chaos strikes.
Vengeance needs more defensive cooldowns so it is not so reliant on Demon Spikes and having to continue to give VDH so much health and armor in order to compete. Fracture and spirit bomb seem mandatory. Metamorphasis could help that by having its own talents.
It will interesting to see if PvP talents will survive in the next exp. and which soul binds and covenants will be kept in the future. Essense break and unbound chaos were excellent additions.
To me demon hunter should be fast like fury warrior nice and fluid.
Think if we built up and spent fury or whatever it’s called on eye beam like a fury warrior does rampage.
Yes, havoc needs a rework. This thread is worth your attention: Havoc Wishlist for 10.0
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I have no experience woth havoc, but vengance seems pretty fine right now. They can include alot of what makes the current iterations of demon hunter borrowed power as talents. I dont think the DH has ever had a full tree. Most of my experience is Full tier double legendary though. I am not sure what you would fix with a rework that can’t be fixed through talents.
Legion and BFA DH was pretty good. I haven’t been a fan of Shadow Lands DH. I recently came back to check it out (like literally a week ago) and keeping Sinful Brand up via Eye Beam sucks.
With that said, I don’t think DH needs a rework. I think a lot of the talents need reworks, or simply replaced with something else. For example, I don’t like Unbound Chaos and Glaive Tempest should be buffed + replaced with Fel Barrage (and Fel Barrage needs to be dumpstered). I think the core concept of DH is really good. Could be super strong once the class/spec gets balanced without barrowed power in mind.
This is all assuming Blizzard knocks it outta the park, in regards to balancing.
I want to see a 3rd spec a ranged dps spec.
I want to see our Tier-4 actually mean something. It does nothing to help us perform better. Look at some of the other classes 4-tier (welcome to them over-performing!) and we can barely get 11k-14k.
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Blizzard: Your spec is already wrecked LMAO
It def needs a rework, its rotation is very mindless, even with extra abilities it feels like It needs more spenders and nuance.
More baseline abilities, more uniqueness with its playstyle, like making momentum baseline to make it truly unique and stand out.
maybe make them less squishy
Now that you mentioned it, DH is the first and only class designed in the borrowed power era and the first and only two spec class. In Legion part of their power was the artifact tree, thus when BFA came, a two spec, borrowed power class was pruned and underdeveloped. Blizzard was not prepared.
Yes, at least until the Evoker comes out as far as the 2 specs are concerned, because the Evoker is going to enter the expansion in which we return to a more classic talent system and without borrowed power, whereas DH was built on borrowed power and the talent system we’re leaving behind.
I think this would be the best time to ask for a review, rethinking and rework of our class.
Curious that you’d post that on a Warlock.
LoD encounter last night:
Dest. Warlock damage sources: 14
Demon Hunter damage sources: 18
B. Druid damage sources: 15
S. Hunter damage sources: 12
El. Shaman damage sources: 14
En. Shaman damage sources: 24
Who has less now?
Feel bad for my wife now, she plays Enhance.
Why is it so curious I post on my warlock? I have posts on dh forums as well, I find it tiedeous to lost on multiple characters.