To exterminate the older generation (approximately all those who have not reached the “majority”), place children who hate you on reservations for ten to twenty people; take all the positions of gynecologists and obstetricians, introduce a mandatory examination; to take away and raise babies on their own.
And there will be no scars, one problem is to exterminate the older generation. Finances, recruiting, public discontent are carefully ignored so as not to spoil an unviable idea.
Well, what can go wrong if everything “goes smoothly”?
I’m pretty sure that’s cultural genocide.
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Yes. What’s wrong with that if a culture has repeatedly shown itself to be harmful and unstable?
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Yeah the Horde’s supposed ‘penance’ for waging an unprovoked genocidal war of aggression against the humans, dwarves, gnomes and elves of Azeroth was to spend twenty years in prison, slaughter their way out of prison, slaughter their way into posession of a human fleet, flee the country, then immediately go back to fighting humans on Kalimdor as soon as they were encountered.
Then do it again in Cataclysm.
Then do it again in BfA.
This one is twisting the facts a bit. The orcs first broke free from their camps through non-aggressive means. The main way they achieved this was Thrall got himself caught intentionally and when inside, he would invoke a “peaceful” prison riot. It was only when a few camps were left, such as Durnholde and what would become Hammerfall did the Alliance bump up the guards. Even when the horde sacked Durnholde, Thrall ordered that any human who lays down their weapons are to be spared. Those who wanted a fight… got a fight.
The Alliance had captured Grom captive and he was imprisoned near the naval yard. Most likely he was scouting out the area and got caught.
Also the Alliance did attack first in this instance. Play the prologue campaign in WC3.
This was mainly the Warsong clan and it was mostly due to the demonic presence nearby revamping their demonic blood from Mannoroth. Keep in mind that the Legion had just arrived on Azeroth around the time the Orcs and Jainas forces made landfall. Mannoroth and Tichondrius were nearby watching as well on orders from Archimonde. As the Eredar believed the orcs would prove useful in killing Cenarius. The only threat Archimonde was afraid of.
We don’t know who attacked who first when it came to the Warsong clan and the humans when Thrall and his forces found them.
I will say Cataclysm did have the whole… Cataclysm thing that made resources hard to come by. For BFA that came down to Blizzards terrible writing and always going back to the AvH storylines to hook in old players…
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Which is a weird lesson choice for them. Want to rope in old players? Bring back the Lich King (y’know, without having him get punked out in the cinematic), bring back Illidan (which, of course, they already did to success), bring back the old favorites people want to stab again or hang out with again.
The old players who liked the HvA stuff? They liked it because it was their story, told in the fields of Hillsbrad, the forests of Ashenvale, the jungles of Stranglethorn, and all the BGs. Nobody (I mean, of course there’s people) looks back nostalgically at Cata’s HvA story. The most acclaimed aspects of MoP had nothing to do with HvA stuff.
But they do go back to that, because they think if they write the story that we made our own, people will come running. Or if they include the vague premise from the RTS games poorly in an MMO setting, it’ll be amaze. Yet each time, they show they can’t tell that story in a two faction MMO without flubbing it.
Blizzard needs to learn its lessons. Faction tensions are fine, but you rope people back in by bringing back things they love.
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I disagree with everything in this post so badly that it makes me want to agree with Erevien. This is anti-fun to me, just more punishing the players for the dev’s spray of liquid dog crap story. I would rather the Horde were literally renamed ‘The Satan Worshipping N### Cannibals’ with Warchief Hitler than this. I would rather The Alliance simply genocide every man woman and child of the Horde out of existence and all Horde characters, PCs and NPC be deleted out of the game.
Blizz raised the stakes too far; there are no longer any meaningful/rational consequences left that wouldn’t completely destroy the game in my eyes, that’s how badly they failed.
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Well looks like Sylvanas is going to get “Judged” by Tyrande but I don’t think anything would happen to Sylvanas.
Tyrande is going to say something dumb and nothing will come of this.
God I hate these writers so much… I wish I could be this bad at my job and still be employed.
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Serious question, no sarcasm or anything.
Why is it so anti-fun having NPCs sitting nearby? Each location I listed already has NPCs there. Nothing new is really being added, other than repaired and built up buildings in quest zones.
What am I missing here?
In my mind, the difference between a Horde that doesn’t have a zero-tolerance for Alliance NPCs in their territory, and a Horde that has to use their own tongues as toilet paper whenever an Alliance NPC uses the bathroom and ran out doesn’t exist.
The things you suggest are so messed-up, dude. You really should calm down.
It’s wrong because it’s not necessary?
I mean, when a Nation repeatedly makes direct efforts to exterminate certain groups of people… Isn’t it?
When one’s culture glorifies battle to the degree of exonerating the slaughtering women and children. “The Path of Glory”
And continues to uplift the names of War Criminals of their past, naming places of great cultural significance after them. And when the last two decades has shown that they still have a predisposition for starting wars by invading territory that is not their own.
Then that culture is evil. And for Alliance races, it is a matter of sheer luck that they haven’t been exterminated. Yet, Alliance leadership allows that threat to linger and loom.
It is a tough problem to resolve in the context of an MMORPG. It’s one reason that I find it unfathomable that Blizzard chose to go back to this type of storyline after the failure to properly resolve it in Cata/MoP.
On the one hand from a meta standpoint, Blizzard needs to continue to make a game that appeals to players of both factions (Given the plunge in numbers on the Alliance side, one can question how well they’re succeeding - but that’s a different issue).
On the other hand from an in-game/story perspective, the ongoing actions of the factions towards each other become increasingly unbelievable. For example, the weakness or apparent non-existence of a war hawk faction in the Alliance in the face of the Horde’s actions in Cata/MoP and BfA just doesn’t seem to make sense.
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Some of the things Arthas did were under orders such as his attack on Quel’thelas and the Sunwell.
Others such as the extreme torture of Sylvannas and her archers post their defeat… that’s pure Arthas, Ner’zhul did not require that of him and it did not advance their mission. He makes it clear that he does what he does out of a sense of personal affront and that he’s paying her for the effrontery to resist.
Everything that happens after the Lich King wakes up at the beginning of the Wrath cinematic… totally and one hundred percent Arthas’ agency and design.
And lets not forget that his actions before taking up the sword include treason, mass murder, deception, and betrayal.
I’m also going to add regicide/patricide to Arthas’ personal crimes as the dialogue between him and Terenas is purely son and father.
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You didn’t answer the question I asked.
So I can’t really comment.
I answered the question that I felt that you should have asked. I call it my Steve Jobs approach.
Nope. That’s called dodging.
I don’t need you to inform me what Arthas did or did not do. I am quite familiar with that already.
The only difference between your point and mine is when does Prince Arthas stop being Prince Arthas and Deathknight Arthas controlled by Frostmoune begins.
All the lore so far says that after touching that sword his soul was claimed so all of his crimes stop right there because he lost his free will to the sword. So all the stuff you went over is frankly irrelevant. Until you establish why Arthas is at fault for any of the actions taken after touching the sword.
Which is what the question was about.
I will answer that directly. He NEVER stops being Prince Arthas. He never becomes Robo Death Knight because he discusses his orders. He does things above, beyond, and below his Scourge mandate because he indulges his whims and his annoyances He becomes Ner’zhul’s lieutenant and then after he picks up the helm he undergoes a 5 year battle for supremacy in his own skull.
When his eyes open up at the beginning of Wrath he has won that battle and eliminated both Ner’zhul and the spector of his own humanity. Every single thing he does during the Wrath expansion is Arthas, and Arthas alone. He may retain Ner’zhul’s memories and it causes him occasionally to make statements like “I was a Shaman”, but he’s not Ner’zhul.
That’s why the Wrath cinematic keeps referencing his memories of Terenas lessons about being King as his actions pervert the intention of those lessons.
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Lore disagrees. He lost his soul when he touched the sword.
The lore is very explicit in this and the book doesn’t disprove it either. If you try to push otherwise, its pure headcanon.
Arthas was naive, selfish, insecure and if a dev says he was evil then hey yeah sure he was evil too. Whatever… but regardless of those facts Arthas ceased being Arthas when he touched that sword. In the book it takes him years to wrestle back control, slightly, in his mind before the start of Wrath of the Lichking.
Fact is Arthas lost his soul when he touched the sword.
When I asked Cursewords my question he seemed to imply that regardless of why the sword was touched by Arthas the unimaginable consequences of that gesture are still fully his responsibility.
If that’s your argument then thats a different discussion and I doubt we would ever see eye to eye.
So what… he’s still Arthas, with a soul or without.
That is abundantly clear by his actions which are also part of lore for the reasons that I have gone into length multiple times.
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