I am not trying to convince anyone - especially someone such as yourself, who didn’t even read the Arthas book. Little sense in trying to convince someone who won’t learn on their own.
No, I am simply stating the canon facts. If you want to ignore them, you don’t need my permission.
If everyone believed Arthas was really a sentient Flower that only meant to bring love - I would just point out the canon facts. I would not try to convince them of the truth.
I already did. I also suggested you read the book, and I mentioned some scenes.
CDev also clearly stated he was an evil paladin before he picked up Frostmourne.
You are not offering anything from the book. So me reading it doesn’t seem necessary. If you have any insights to share then please do.
You are. After he grabbed the sword which invalidates your point. Its like us blaming banshe sylvanas actions on ranger general sylvanas. Its dumb.
Personal moral failings like being stubborn or having a bad attititude doesn’t make someone go murder their own dad and kill eveyone in their own country.
But you haven’t shown anything that shows Arthas of his own freewill chose to grab Frostmourne for the purpose of destroying his kingdom and people to usher in a new era of the undead for his master the Lichking.
The thing is, we can put ourselves in Arthas’s shoes and see where he’s coming from with empathy, but as the audience we can also examine the consequences of his actions.
Did he believe he was saving everyone? Yes.
Was this moment a catalyst to his fall because killing innocent people was what made him morrally bankrupt enough to manipulate by a cosmic superpower? Also yes.
The saddest thing about Arthas was his desire to save his kingdom was twisted into a desire to destroy Azeroth. That’s his legacy. Sadly that’s his only legacy.
Yes I agree with all these points.
Now onto the final stretch.
Why does Sylvanas get a chance of redemption, but Arthas doesn’t?
If you accept all the points above then why is Arthas so unredeemable that he should go to the maw without getting the chance at being judged?
What if we find the soul split of Arthas and he is as horrified as sylvanas was? What would you say to that?
Because Sylvanas was stripped of her agency when Arthas raised her as Banshee. Arthas however was already evil before he picked up Frostmourne. The culling of Stratholme and the betrayal of the mercanaries proove that.
Arthas died. He experienced his final death (In undead terms.)
Sylvanas hasn’t.
That’s the only difference.
Arthas is dead. Sylvanas is still undead.
Sylvanas still has an opportunity to make an impact on Azeroth and create a new legacy. His story is over and she’s still in the middle of her story.
Its the exact same scenario. Grabbing the sword and someone powersliding into it were all done with the same intention.
“Save my people”
Both of them could have ran away, regrouped, organized escape. They didn’t, they stood and fought and frostmourne got both of them.
You have double standards my friend.
Prove it. No one has been able so far except some obscure interview. And if thats the argument you want to use to say you win the argument then ok lol.
Guess you win.
And the Arthas book, if people really want to know, they could read. You would think people in the story forum might at least read the story before being so adamant.
How does the Arbitrator judge? By the perfect in life or by personality? It seems to be by deeds.
How much information is there about the living Sylvanas? So that it turns out that she is greedy for fame at any price that someone else will pay. Or a torturer of subordinates from the word “torture”, not “super-hard training.”
We are in the land of the dead. When you die you are supposed to go and get judged and go through the afterlife system.
Idk some people here are on the verge of puking at the thought of Arthas being judged by the arbiter and being given a chance rather than being stuck in the maw for all eternity.
And the final death in undead terms or not doesn’t seem to be the reason.
You said you played WC 3… but you seem to have a bad memory.
Arthas didn’t punch the sword and call it names and slap it around. He didn’t fight the sword when he encountered it. He embraced it. Willingly.
On the other hand, Sylvanas clearly said for Arthas to end it and that she wanted a clean death. Arthas denied her choice because she vexed him.
Sylvanas didn’t go to a different continent and choose to become a Banshee after everyone told her not to. Like Arthas did with the sword. Arthas turned her to a banshee against her will while she was defending her homeland.
When Arthas grabbed the sword he ceased being the Arthas we knew before he grabbed it. All personal failings and all that went poof.
He only obeyed the voice of the dark lord, check it out I have it linked in the earlier posts with video proof as well as several wow story website quotes that reference various wow literature.
When he grabbed the sword he became Deathknight Arthas.
When Sylvanas was struck by the sword she became Banshee Sylvanas and she was a slave to Frostmourne until the Lichking lost hist hold on his many minions and Sylvanas broke free.
No one blames Banshee Sylvanas on Sylvanas. We can’t blame Deathknight Arthas on Arthas. According to the book it was only at the start of Wrath of the Lichking that Arthas finally became the driver of the Lichking which means beforehand he had no real free will.
You want to blame Arthas for the events of Wrath of the Lichking? Sure go for it. The book supports that.
Thats the thing. Arthas never chose to become a Deathknight. He wanted to save his kingdom and got manipulated to picking up a sword that was left there to kill him.
The alternative was to go back and wait for the next Stratholm.
Yes - when he chose to grab it of his own free will, he doomed himself, his country, and many others.
You seem to ignore that, and focus on his servitude afterward - but he willingly entered in to it.
Of course not. She chose a clean death, and Arthas denied her choice.
Yes, we can, because Arthas the evil Paladin chose to wield the sword.
He willingly chose to grab the sword despite all warnings. And that was entirely of his choosing, as the evil Paladin CDev states he was before he wielded Frostmourne.
And you seem to ignore he had no idea what would happen. No one knew. But still you blame him like this was all intentional and so he should be blame as such for it. There is no logic to what you say especially when you bend yourself into a pretzel trying to justify and or excuse what Sylvanas has done AFTER regaining her mind.
Frostmourne Arthas. Deathnknight Arthas. Sylvanas chose to face Arthas in combat. That was her choice. Arthas chose to touch a sword. That was his choice.
And frostmourne decided what to do with both of them.
You are wrong. The lore states differently.
There were no warnings that he would become a deathknight and destroy his own kingdom.
No, I am right. You haven’t even read the book. I don’t care about your opinions, you are welcome to them. But the canon lore facts are quite clear.
Maybe you should read more stuff on your own instead of taking fan created you tube videos as gospel.
The lore is quite clear that he chose to wield Frostmourne of his own free will. And CDev was quite clear that he was an evil paladin before he grabbed it. Those are two true facts in the story based on the lore.
Sylvanas is not Arthas, she would have weighed her options. Sylvanas is all about wait and see. Hypothetically she would probably have urged the conclave of Silvermoon to take action before it became a problem. She would have forseen the potenrial danger and formulated a plan.
Your hypothosis hinges on a point that all characters would be as impulsive as Arthas. Sylvanas may be vain but she doesn’t have the same hubris of pride Arthas does. She’s patient she would have looked for the best possible outcome.
This is one of the reasons why I like her but hate him.
You have presented nothing from the book that states differently.
Multiple Lore sources and videos disagree with you.
You are making up lore and making contrived arguments to support your view with no sound logical reason behind it.
The Arthas that you blame for taking Sylvanas’ choice away was gone. He was not in control. For all intents and purposes he died and came back when WOTLK launched.
And this is according to the book you cherish so much.
